How often do you venture out along Portobello High Street after 8pm? Not very often in my case, although recently I have had occasion to do so.
It is a depressing sight. Tonight for example I came home via Bath Street where a group of local youths were kicking a football around outside the Bingo Hall, with no regard for passing pedestrians or the unfortunate owners of the cars they were hitting.
Around the corner in the High Street it seems that every other car belongs to a boy racer, noisily racing up and down the road, loud music thumping out. Gangs of youths maraud the street, more kids kicking a football across the High Street, bawling at each other. Kids cycling all over the High Street in the dark without lights or helmets.
Has Portobello become a no-go area after dark, particularly at weekends? Are the police doing enough? Or perhaps I'm just being intolerant. Perhaps we just have to accept that it's their territory after dark and we should stay indoors and watch the telly. And if you live in Bath Street, just turn up the volume so you don't hear your car alarm going off. Bless their cotton socks and buy them a youth shelter.
Nedsville by the sea
Re: Nedsville by the sea
Tsk, tsk Bob. I do fear you are becoming old and intolerantBob wrote:Gangs of youths maraud the street, more kids kicking a football across the High Street, bawling at each other. Kids cycling all over the High Street in the dark without lights or helmets.
. Were you never a teenager? Unless they were beating up pensioners, spraying shop fronts or generally breaking the law, I bet most of them were just being 'young'. The very nature of the beast is to make a lot of noise, kick things (and full marks to them for just making it a football) and taking risks with their overall health. Generations have done it! Just remember that your youngsters will very soon become one of THEM and then it will be a whole different ball game for you!! 
(by which time mine won't be doing it any more and I can laugh at you 
)
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Guest
Truth is, I fear for my son who isn't far from being a teen. Eight years of judo lessons won't prepare him for the street-wise yobs armed with a blade or bottle that he is likely to encounter. My kids won't be hanging aroud the High Street at night - not because I don't trust them, but because I've seen the kids that do.
Residents of Argyle Crescent and its environs, supported by both the Police and (significantly) Maureen Child, are now talking about CCTV cameras to monitor the influx of youth from south of Portobello.
It's easy to take a 'right on' attitude if you are not directly affected. Ask the people at the receiving end how it feels.
Residents of Argyle Crescent and its environs, supported by both the Police and (significantly) Maureen Child, are now talking about CCTV cameras to monitor the influx of youth from south of Portobello.
It's easy to take a 'right on' attitude if you are not directly affected. Ask the people at the receiving end how it feels.
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Surrealist
...and even easier to take a 'wrong on' attitude and adopt the language of intolerance. Marya and Epykat have managed to approach the subject without resorting to your Rudy Giuliani invective, Bob.Bob wrote:the Police ...
Maureen Child ...
CCTV cameras ...
influx of youth ...
easy to take a 'right on' attitude
Oh I bet they will!!Bob wrote: My kids won't be hanging aroud the High Street at night
Much as you hope they'll want to sit in and watch telly with you they will probably do the exact opposite. My 16 year old son is a well brought up lad (I presume, since it was my decent, law abiding hubby and me who were involved!), he's nice to old people and dogs and his language, whilst in earshot of his parents, is usually quite polite - HOWEVER - hanging around in the High Street at night is something he has indulged in on more than one occasion. I'm a much happier mummy when he's up in his room watching telly but being realistic, it's not going to happen.I have also been at the "receiving" end of teenage bad behaviour. However I've also been at the receiving end of rude and intolerant pensioners and I haven't seen any CCTV cameras being put up to spy on them! By all means, criticise the kids who are causing the trouble and have them dealt with, but please don't go around with rose tinted glasses thinking that your kids will never be one of them!Bob wrote: It's easy to take a 'right on' attitude if you are not directly affected. Ask the people at the receiving end how it feels.
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Guest
I don't expect my kids to be perfect, but I would be rather disappointed if they started vandalising cars, setting fire to litter bins, covering the place with graffiti, attacking other children for fun, terrorising older people etc. I don't imagine they ever would but, as Marya points out, it is teenagers themselves who are most likey to become victims of violence. I can't imprison my kids (and nor would I want to) but their freedom will be limited and conditional.
Of course I appreciate that 'youth disturbances' are caused by a very small percentage of young people. It is just unfortunate that Porty seems to be a focal point for the worst 1% from a number of areas. Groups of 50+ kids used to be commonplace in Rosefield Park before CCTV was installed. The problem then moved to Joppa Quarry Park. Fifty thousand pounds worth of damage was caused to cars parked in and around Argyle Crescent last Summer by a bunch of kids and a can of Nitromors.
I recall that we had one or two local people who didn't want the camera. It infringed their human rights, Big Brother etc. I don't hear anyone complaining now. OK, so we displaced the problem. Seems that these kids just don't like the idea of being observed as they attempt to vandalise our children's play equipment. I know from speaking to people from other neighbourhood watch schemes that there are hundreds of other families in Portobello who desperately want CCTV in their area.
Over the last couple of years I have been closely involved in the Problem Solving Partnership, set up to examine 'youth disturbance'. I appreciate the excellent work that is being carried out by people like Brian Greatorex at Portobello Youth Club and elsewhere. I recognise the work that the local police are involved in, such as the 5 a side football they are currently running, and the efforts being made by the other partner agencies.
Of course there is a bigger picture, of course there are underlying issues. Sure, give them a youth shelter at the foot of Marlborough Street. Just don't expect me to stand back and accept that we have to live with the violence, vandalism and general disturbance as part of the package.
Of course I appreciate that 'youth disturbances' are caused by a very small percentage of young people. It is just unfortunate that Porty seems to be a focal point for the worst 1% from a number of areas. Groups of 50+ kids used to be commonplace in Rosefield Park before CCTV was installed. The problem then moved to Joppa Quarry Park. Fifty thousand pounds worth of damage was caused to cars parked in and around Argyle Crescent last Summer by a bunch of kids and a can of Nitromors.
I recall that we had one or two local people who didn't want the camera. It infringed their human rights, Big Brother etc. I don't hear anyone complaining now. OK, so we displaced the problem. Seems that these kids just don't like the idea of being observed as they attempt to vandalise our children's play equipment. I know from speaking to people from other neighbourhood watch schemes that there are hundreds of other families in Portobello who desperately want CCTV in their area.
Over the last couple of years I have been closely involved in the Problem Solving Partnership, set up to examine 'youth disturbance'. I appreciate the excellent work that is being carried out by people like Brian Greatorex at Portobello Youth Club and elsewhere. I recognise the work that the local police are involved in, such as the 5 a side football they are currently running, and the efforts being made by the other partner agencies.
Of course there is a bigger picture, of course there are underlying issues. Sure, give them a youth shelter at the foot of Marlborough Street. Just don't expect me to stand back and accept that we have to live with the violence, vandalism and general disturbance as part of the package.
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Surrealist
That's rhetoric - nobody has made any such statement. But don't let that put you off your project of putting your mark, or rather your boot print, on our streets.Bob wrote:... don't expect me to stand back and accept that we have to live with the violence, vandalism and general disturbance as part of the package.
You're like a gestalt entity composed of 50% Mary Whitehouse and 50% Rudy Giuliani. If anyone is making Porty a no-go area it's you - your initial diatribe in this thread, not to mention it's nasty title, is enough to put anybody off visiting these parts - at least not until you've swept up the riff-raff and have declared it safe for the cardigan posse.
Anyone who mentions boy racers (so what? they love their cars and look after them - and did you witness a crash or was it just that you prefer Gabba to Trance ?), gangs of youths, kids kicking a football (cripes! SWAT team at the ready!), shouting (oh my god!!! i bet they used cuss words as well) and ... wait for it....cycling without lights or helmets........in the same paragraph simply has a problem, not a problem with teens.
You are a worse troublemaker than any of these teens. You are not part of any solution - you are part of a problem.
Maybe you like to think that if these "problems" did not occur, you wouldn't have anything to complain about - not true. Your psyche is actively looking for things to complain about, and has settled on the first thing that presented in front of your nose.
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Guest
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Surrealist
Not a very pleasant thread...
Hm...well, not checked in for a few days or so, but i was pretty taken aback by the vitriol in this thread. Whilst I agree that the majority of teenagers hanging around are doing only that, and are often extremely polite and nice, the victims themselves of prejudice born of fear, we can't surely all have rose tinted glasses on all the time about the situation? The people you all talk so kindly of playing football in Bath Street on Friday - just a little footie, god bless 'em, are the same people who last night climbed over the wall into our garden and - presumably for a dare - stole our children's toys. From our safe, enclosed garden. They are the same people who made the life of the disabled man who lived in that stair so much of a misery he had to move, and the same goes for the gay resident who has also given up and left, after two years and more of verbal abuse and physical assault. The same people who play football against residents' cars, and who run over the cars, and who deliberately slash tyres and break mirrors and so on. They are the same people one of whom was originally due in court within the last couple of weeks for beating up another Bath Street resident who had come out of his house to say that his young children were sleeping, and would they mind keeping the noise down a little bit - an innocent man hospitalised for trying to take care of his children. Or maybe we think he was infringing THEIR human rights by trying to protect his family's? Come off it, guys, yes, we should give the kids a fair shot and not blame kids for doing nothing, but most people know all about the gang on Bath Street and their...what? Jolly japes? I don't think so.
Maybe Bob's original post was a little strong, but then maybe the people so against what he had to say are the "lucky" ones who don't have to deal with such problems in their area. Or maybe you do and I'm showing my own prejudice there. We all have prejudices somewhere in us.
Not all kids are bad, not all teenagers are out to get the rest of us, not all teenagers are happy about having to deal with big gangs themselves. But that doesn't make all of them innocent either - just as we're not all innocent of everything ourselves, either. And I don't doubt my lads will grow up to be out there on the High Street at night. But in the meantime, I'm getting very tired of always having to phone the police about those sweet, innocent teenagers on Bath Street who've driven away my friends and neighbours, destroyed their property, and stolen toys from my garden.
This thread seems to only allow for sides; maybe everyone's a bit right, and we could try and remember that instead of laying into each other and making it so personal.
Bellybabe
Maybe Bob's original post was a little strong, but then maybe the people so against what he had to say are the "lucky" ones who don't have to deal with such problems in their area. Or maybe you do and I'm showing my own prejudice there. We all have prejudices somewhere in us.
Not all kids are bad, not all teenagers are out to get the rest of us, not all teenagers are happy about having to deal with big gangs themselves. But that doesn't make all of them innocent either - just as we're not all innocent of everything ourselves, either. And I don't doubt my lads will grow up to be out there on the High Street at night. But in the meantime, I'm getting very tired of always having to phone the police about those sweet, innocent teenagers on Bath Street who've driven away my friends and neighbours, destroyed their property, and stolen toys from my garden.
This thread seems to only allow for sides; maybe everyone's a bit right, and we could try and remember that instead of laying into each other and making it so personal.
Bellybabe
I've only read a little of what's been written here and whilst being entirely one sided I'd have to say that i rather agreed with BB (Bellybabe). I'm tired of going out into my back garden wondering what I'll find that has been either chucked over (broken bottles etc) or stolen. I'm tired of worrying about what my young children will find if they wander out into the garden (we bought because we thought it would be a safe place for them) before we have a chance to check it.
Nicky (very disgruntled and WAS looking forward to the summer)
PS Perhaps I should vote with my feet and seel up like the other ex-inhabitants of Bath Street who were driven out - see BB last post)
Nicky (very disgruntled and WAS looking forward to the summer)
PS Perhaps I should vote with my feet and seel up like the other ex-inhabitants of Bath Street who were driven out - see BB last post)
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Guest
Bellybabe, spotted you and your family in the playpark on the Prom earlier this evening. Would have stopped to say hello but I was on a mission, and also I didn't want to identify myself as I was with my son who was cycling without a helmet
I have posted on the subject of Bath Street before and I sympathise entirely with BB and Nicky. Quite frankly, I wouldn't like to live there. I am well aware of the cause of the problem, as I'm sure are the local police. One of the children involved was in fact recently expelled from Towerbank Primary.
My original post was borne of frustration. Admittedly, it was also designed to engineer debate. Sometimes I find a little prod in the right direction is required to stimulate discussion.
I hope you are able to resolve your local problems and I'm sure that a Bath Street/Mentone residents association would be a step in the right direction.
I have posted on the subject of Bath Street before and I sympathise entirely with BB and Nicky. Quite frankly, I wouldn't like to live there. I am well aware of the cause of the problem, as I'm sure are the local police. One of the children involved was in fact recently expelled from Towerbank Primary.
My original post was borne of frustration. Admittedly, it was also designed to engineer debate. Sometimes I find a little prod in the right direction is required to stimulate discussion.
I hope you are able to resolve your local problems and I'm sure that a Bath Street/Mentone residents association would be a step in the right direction.
I have enjoyed being a lurker on this forum for a while, but have never really felt that I have had anything worth contributing. But, as I am a resident on Bath Street I feel I should put my view forward.
I am also concerned about the children who frequently play football outside the bingo hall, I certainly wouldn't want to park my car there. And, having just bought a shiny new car, I want to keep it looking as good as new for as long as possible!
I wouldn't be happy to walk down Bath Street late at night on my own, but plenty of people do and haven't had any bother. Maybe people are slightly overreacting to how bad Bath Street actually is? (not the ones that actually live on it, I hasten to add) Bob saying that he is glad that he doesn't live here is a bit harsh, and not particularly helpful to us residents. Yes, if I was to choose again, I would probably choose somewhere else to live, but is Bath Street all that different to any other street in Edinburgh?
It would be good if there was a bit more support from the police, they are just around the corner after all. I am sure that something could be done to help all the residents of Bath Street to feel a bit safer. A neighbour mentioned some sort of neighbourhood watch scheme but not sure if that is being implemented or not.
As for the fight on Bath Street, I am not sure if it was the same one I witnessed a few weeks ago (if not, that is quite worrying, as there are obviously lots of fights going on). What I saw was a man and woman having a very loud verbal disagreement outside the bingo hall, they obviously knew each other as they were calling each other by name. Her kids were all hanging about, backing their Mum up. The man then lunged at the woman, her kids jumped in and that is when the fight took off. We scampered home and called the police. The point I am trying to make, at least in this instance, is that there tends to be 2 sides to every story.
The main problem I see with Bath Street is the sheer volume of dog poo everywhere, which has been discussed before. It really is disgusting.
Still, look on the positive side. We are only 2 minutes from a nice beach, and great views!
I hope that the street does improve, but I can imagine with the school holidays approaching, it can only get worse before it gets better
I am also concerned about the children who frequently play football outside the bingo hall, I certainly wouldn't want to park my car there. And, having just bought a shiny new car, I want to keep it looking as good as new for as long as possible!
I wouldn't be happy to walk down Bath Street late at night on my own, but plenty of people do and haven't had any bother. Maybe people are slightly overreacting to how bad Bath Street actually is? (not the ones that actually live on it, I hasten to add) Bob saying that he is glad that he doesn't live here is a bit harsh, and not particularly helpful to us residents. Yes, if I was to choose again, I would probably choose somewhere else to live, but is Bath Street all that different to any other street in Edinburgh?
It would be good if there was a bit more support from the police, they are just around the corner after all. I am sure that something could be done to help all the residents of Bath Street to feel a bit safer. A neighbour mentioned some sort of neighbourhood watch scheme but not sure if that is being implemented or not.
As for the fight on Bath Street, I am not sure if it was the same one I witnessed a few weeks ago (if not, that is quite worrying, as there are obviously lots of fights going on). What I saw was a man and woman having a very loud verbal disagreement outside the bingo hall, they obviously knew each other as they were calling each other by name. Her kids were all hanging about, backing their Mum up. The man then lunged at the woman, her kids jumped in and that is when the fight took off. We scampered home and called the police. The point I am trying to make, at least in this instance, is that there tends to be 2 sides to every story.
The main problem I see with Bath Street is the sheer volume of dog poo everywhere, which has been discussed before. It really is disgusting.
Still, look on the positive side. We are only 2 minutes from a nice beach, and great views!
I hope that the street does improve, but I can imagine with the school holidays approaching, it can only get worse before it gets better
So what are the Police doing about it? People lose heart constantly phoning the Police and them either not turning up or turning up when everything is over, or taking little or no action. This is the reason I didn't phone a while back when there was a boy trying to kick in the bus shelter. There is no point having Neighbourhood Watch when there's no backup. I fully appreciate how busy the Police are but people need to know that they will be backed up and something done when they report incidents.cevans wrote: It would be good if there was a bit more support from the police, they are just around the corner after all. I am sure that something could be done to help all the residents of Bath Street to feel a bit safer. A neighbour mentioned some sort of neighbourhood watch scheme but not sure if that is being implemented or not. (
And... getting back to a thread of many moons ago which really upset Surrealist.......if there weren't so many drugs around there wouldn't be so much crime. (I have my hard hat at the ready for the backlash
)Hm...sadly not. the one I was referring to was a year or more ago, but only due to come to court this month. Someone we know was being called as a witness but then the bloke in question decided to plead guilty in the end.cevans wrote: As for the fight on Bath Street, I am not sure if it was the same one I witnessed a few weeks ago (if not, that is quite worrying, as there are obviously lots of fights going on). (
Not happy to hear of another fight...but worryingly, not surprised either.
Ach well... It's still a lot worse in other places. Mrs Bellybabe was being told at work today about gangs of youths terrorising the Parsons Green neighbourhood, setting wheelie bins on fire, stealing everything from gardent, supergluing car keyholes... But I would rather not be left feeling "grateful" that it's not so bad - I can't help but think I should have a right to EXPECT it to be ok!
Bellybabe
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Guest
I think there is a real danger that we start to accept the violence and vandalism as 'normal'. I don't think that we are being intolerant in wishing to live a quiet and peaceful life and if there is something that is preventing us from doing so then we are perfectly entitled to complain about it and to demand action.
We live here and collectively WE decide what is and what is not acceptable behaviour. Epykat, I understand your frustration at the lack of response from the Police but whatever your experience I would urge you to continue to make complaints and that is the view that Bob Wardrop, the station Inspector, is keen to put across. Youth disturbance calls are clearly not a high priority (compared with robbery, serious assaults etc) but your call will be dealt with as soon as is possible and it will be logged. This is important because it helps to build up a pattern of crime in the area and allows resources to be allocated more efficiently. It also helps to reinforce the case for more community beat officers in the Portobello area.
Many older people, often living alone, feel particularly vulnerable and are prisoners in their own homes after dark. Neighbourhood Watch schemes help to build solidarity and give people a bit more confidence and reassurance that their problems are shared, and are being tackled, by the community.
We live here and collectively WE decide what is and what is not acceptable behaviour. Epykat, I understand your frustration at the lack of response from the Police but whatever your experience I would urge you to continue to make complaints and that is the view that Bob Wardrop, the station Inspector, is keen to put across. Youth disturbance calls are clearly not a high priority (compared with robbery, serious assaults etc) but your call will be dealt with as soon as is possible and it will be logged. This is important because it helps to build up a pattern of crime in the area and allows resources to be allocated more efficiently. It also helps to reinforce the case for more community beat officers in the Portobello area.
Many older people, often living alone, feel particularly vulnerable and are prisoners in their own homes after dark. Neighbourhood Watch schemes help to build solidarity and give people a bit more confidence and reassurance that their problems are shared, and are being tackled, by the community.
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Guest
Of course, it's all relative. Just thank God you don't live in Broomhouse:
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index ... 0520205205
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index ... 0520205205
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Surrealist
Yes - you'd expect things to be better after 20 years of Labour control of local authority in Edinburgh, and 6 years of a national Labour government.
Maybe if we rid ourselves of those people who have been seen hanging about on street corners (although only at election time) - Gavin, Susan, Maureen and Lawrence - things would be better?
I'm not sure though - their dad Tony has to share some of the blame......
Maybe if we rid ourselves of those people who have been seen hanging about on street corners (although only at election time) - Gavin, Susan, Maureen and Lawrence - things would be better?
I'm not sure though - their dad Tony has to share some of the blame......
Prime example of bad teenager handling seen first hand today. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.
Two teenagers (whom I know very well and can vouch for) were standing outside Greigs waiting for their friend (whom I also know very well and can also vouch for). He came out of the shop and, as boys do, reached up and swung from the scaffolding pole outside the shop. Thinking this was great fun, he did it again and so did one of the other boys. All innocent, good, clean fun, not harming a soul. One of the male assistants came out of the shop and shouted at them to get off the *ing scaffolding. Not surprisingly this wasn't taken very kindly by the boys and they swore back at him - I was past them by this time so didn't see the end of the saga, but sadly thought how unnecessary it all was. If he had ignored them the game would have been over in seconds, they weren't doing any harm and he only served to build nothing into an argument - and no doubt anyone else passing would be blaming the kids. And I really don't think he was thinking of their health and safety either.
Two teenagers (whom I know very well and can vouch for) were standing outside Greigs waiting for their friend (whom I also know very well and can also vouch for). He came out of the shop and, as boys do, reached up and swung from the scaffolding pole outside the shop. Thinking this was great fun, he did it again and so did one of the other boys. All innocent, good, clean fun, not harming a soul. One of the male assistants came out of the shop and shouted at them to get off the *ing scaffolding. Not surprisingly this wasn't taken very kindly by the boys and they swore back at him - I was past them by this time so didn't see the end of the saga, but sadly thought how unnecessary it all was. If he had ignored them the game would have been over in seconds, they weren't doing any harm and he only served to build nothing into an argument - and no doubt anyone else passing would be blaming the kids. And I really don't think he was thinking of their health and safety either.
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Bob Jefferson
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And if they do decide to stay to listen, it may have a therapeutic effect. We are currently experimenting on our four year old with Gregorian Chant, while the 'Mozart effect' is well documented.
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mr magnolia
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I reckon that could run like clockwork....Marya wrote:Remember when you liked teenagers, Epykat?
Came across an interesting news snippet today, on the BBC's site, which tells how the playing of classical music deters teenagers from congregating in public areas.
Puccini on the Prom?
Every Day Counts
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Bob Jefferson
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Pal of Porty
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Yes....well.....I don't like them very much nowMarya wrote:Remember when you liked teenagers, Epykat?
Came across an interesting news snippet today, on the BBC's site, which tells how the playing of classical music deters teenagers from congregating in public areas.
Puccini on the Prom?
But that aside, yes I did read the bit about the music and I thought it was a great idea. I think they should pipe Mozart all around the school at change over times and they'd be legging it into the classes I did get a laugh at work today though. A wee girl said to me "Miss, are you no a real teacher? Are you just the varnisher?
If only!Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
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bouncie_kiwi
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