Benn played a blinder

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 15 Aug 2005, 22:58

If only to annoy the POL torture posse, I present my pictures from tonight's packed anti-war meeting at the David Hume Tower. Definitely my favourite Tony B !!!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:00

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:01

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:02

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:03

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:09

He looks amazing. Isn't he about 80 or so?

You caught some great expressions there, Dada. It's reasonably easy to imagine the dialogue behind them.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:21

My lefty bookstall tonight was dedicated to all the haters. Hello haters!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:23

ecm wrote:He looks amazing. Isn't he about 80 or so?

You caught some great expressions there, Dada. It's reasonably easy to imagine the dialogue behind them.

He is 80. He rocked the joint like a pro. We stood and ovated.

dccairns · Post by **dccairns** » 16 Aug 2005, 10:44

We need more like him to save the Labour party from Tory Blair's right wing excesses.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 16 Aug 2005, 13:15

He is awesome and sadly one of a dying breed.

As for his saving of the Labour Party? What is he saving them from? Continually getting elected with huge majorities.

dccairns · Post by **dccairns** » 16 Aug 2005, 13:45

They got elected by default at the last election. From anecdotal evidence (and I defy you to say there is any other data on why people voted the way they did) many people voted for New Tory (oops, Labour) to keep the Old Tories out. They also lost 100 seats and more people voted against them than for them. The Lib Dems polled only 2% less of the vote than New Labour in Edinburgh.

Blair will soon be history, especially if he follows Bush into Iran.

By the way, did you have a good holiday? It's been awfully quiet and peaceful around here without you.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 16 Aug 2005, 15:15

Porty wrote:What is he saving them from? Continually getting elected with huge majorities.

Poorly worded rhetoric. You ignored what dc said and simply inserted a statement of your own, phrased as a question, and with the wrong tense.

dc didn't say he was saving them, she said "to save" - so you should have said either "what would he save them from?" or something which at least indicated that you had read what she said properly, ie he isn't in the act of saving, which you imply he has already engaged in.

Nor did dc say it was Benn who would do the saving, but "more like him" - so you might have said "what would they be saving them from".

You could also have made reference to Benn being a contender in the past, during the purges, if you had said "what was he saving them from", which would have been my preferred structure had I wished to incorporate part of Benn's past into a pro-Blairite soundbite.

Second rate, must try harder.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Aug 2005, 09:40

dccairns wrote:They got elected by default at the last election. From anecdotal evidence (and I defy you to say there is any other data on why people voted the way they did) many people voted for New Tory (oops, Labour) to keep the Old Tories out.

Anecodotal evidence is not worth the paper its written on. All we can be ceratin of is that Labour got elected by a majority that had only been surpassed twice in its long history.......by the two previos Blair governments.

dccairns wrote:They also lost 100 seats and more people voted against them than for them. The Lib Dems polled only 2% less of the vote than New Labour in Edinburgh.

Edinburgh results are irrelevant. Every party that has ever served a third term in office has suffered lost seats in large numbers. People get disenchante, unrealistic hopes are dashed. New Labour's perfomance at the last election was better than any by Old Labour by a factor of 15. I have detailed the evidence elsewhere.

dccairns wrote:Blair will soon be history, especially if he follows Bush into Iran.

He will soon be history, regardless. He will leave a strong party and has a chance of passing the leadership onto another excellent politician.

By the way, did you have a good holiday? It's been awfully quiet and peaceful around here without you. [/quote]

I did have a great holiday thanks.

dccairns · Post by **dccairns** » 17 Aug 2005, 12:49

The point I was making is that Blair and his party are nowhere near as fantastically popular as you make them out to be. I have not seen anyone else come into the debate to back you up in your assertions that he is only one step away from Her Upstairs.

In fact, you'd be hard put to it to find anyone who has a good word to say for the whole sorry bunch of them.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 17 Aug 2005, 13:34

Porty is right. He will leave a strong party. So strong, they have re-started the Crusades.

Edinburgh results may be irrelevant to Porty, but I would love to hear him say that to Nigel Griffiths.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Aug 2005, 13:45

dccairns wrote:The point I was making is that Blair and his party are nowhere near as fantastically popular as you make them out to be. I have not seen anyone else come into the debate to back you up in your assertions that he is only one step away from Her Upstairs.

In fact, you'd be hard put to it to find anyone who has a good word to say for the whole sorry bunch of them.

The POL debate is also irrelevant and i dont need back up from anyone here to validate my central point, which is the electibility of New versus Old Labour. I know you prefer anecdotes (anecdotal evidence-is that a new Liberal concept?), non-existent voting systems and evidence by omission. No matter what other measuring device you use the facts remain. The numbers don't lie.

I am content to use Election results as the most relevant democratic barometer, silly me.

dccairns · Post by **dccairns** » 17 Aug 2005, 13:53

So why are you bothering to take part in the debate? And your starting point of this whole "irrelevant" debate was not the electability of Old vs new Labour but what a fantastic job Blair is allegedly doing.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Aug 2005, 13:56

The debate is not irelevant to the debate. Its irrelevant to the electibility or the election results. I did not want you to confuse or use the apparent lack of support for my stance on POL, as a barometer for New Labour electibilty, its irrelevant.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 17 Aug 2005, 15:57

Excellent, that's that one cleared up then. Shall we talk about something else?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 17 Aug 2005, 16:13

Bob Jefferson wrote:Excellent, that's that one cleared up then. Shall we talk about something else?

What is cleared up? And we are talking about other things.

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 17 Aug 2005, 17:04

Let's keep to the topic of Mr Benn

and taken from a Mr Benn website the following interesting theory

The Political Theory

As a youngster in the seventies, I would often be bored in front of the TV when the news was on, but occasionally my ears would p rick up at the sound of lines such as "Mr Benn said today that...". I was fascinated to learn that Mr B's opinions on the current affairs of the day were so politically relevant that they were worth televising. Imagine my disappointment, then, when I found out this referred not to our bowler-hatted comrade but to Labour Party stalwart Tony Benn.

Coincidence? Maybe not. It is entirely possible that the series was concocted merely as Conservative Party propaganda, intended to damage Tony Benn's reputation by portraying him as a lonely individual whose political opinions were nought but sheer fantasy and bore no relevance at all to the modern world. The conspirators were undone, however, by their own blinkered insight. It was the very originality of Benn's "crazy" vision of society that incited the audience not to mock him, but instead to cheer. And if you require additional evidence, observant correspondent Bryn Mills comments, "May I remind you that the fancy dress emporium would shut after Mr Benn's entry - and no-one was fonder of the closed shop than old Wedgie." Well, precisely.