Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 24 Feb 2006, 21:09

"Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Sailor, Rich Man, Poor Man, Beggar Man, Thief"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker%2C_ ... ier%2C_Spy

The book by John Le Carre and the BBC adaptation starring Alec Guinness are masterworks, and if they aren't my favourites of print and screen respectively, I shall surely have an argument with myself.

Having been subjected to some banal screenplay recently, I have returned to this espionage thriller if only for a reminder of how things can be if they are done, well, with finesse.

"Reason as logic or reason as motive, or reason as a way of life? They don't have to give me reasons - I can write my own damn reasons, and that is not the same as the half-baked tolerance that comes from no longer caring"

Eh? You have to watch this stuff more than once. If anyone managed to make tail or head of it when it was on the telly, they're out of my depth! Thankfully, I've got the book, audio book (read by the guy who plays Guillam) and DVD and have now seen it enough times to be able to understand - the first 10 or so exposures simply allow you to strip off a layer only to be confronted by a brand new one smiling back at you.

I'm a very slow reader, to the point of almost mouthing what I'm reading - and I certainly don't comprehend how anyone can read a conversation between two people at anything other than the speed a normal conversation takes place at - and I re-read paragraphs quite a lot - so a "read" of Tinker Tailor is always an event.

Any other fans present? Any espionage heads? The next time I'm feeling up to it, I'm going to try either The Honourable Schoolboy or The Constant Gardener, but for now am quite content in re-re-re watching the delicate fencing of Le Carre's characters, given breath to the extent of near perfection by a (in some cases sadly missed) ensemble cast from a very different generation.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 24 Feb 2006, 23:05

Thanks for reminding me Dada. I've seen the start of 'Gorky Park' several times, but never all the way through. Wonder if it is around on DVD these days? Please don't say it's not worth watching, I'll be so disappointed

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 24 Feb 2006, 23:08

Marya wrote:Thanks for reminding me Dada. I've seen the start of 'Gorky Park' several times, but never all the way through. Wonder if it is around on DVD these days? Please don't say it's not worth watching, I'll be so disappointed

Never seen it! It's about a Soviet-era domestic cop, isn't it?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 25 Feb 2006, 13:36

Dadaist wrote: Never seen it! It's about a Soviet-era domestic cop, isn't it?

Yeah, with a whiff of espionage and shifty Americans.

The discovery of three faceless bodies in Moscow's Gorky Park sets Soviet policeman Hurt's investigation in motion, but while subsequent interference by KGB man Dennehy hints at espionage, the involvement of fur-coated businessman Marvin suggests more mercenary motives.

Bizarrely, it has Rikki Fulton and Alexei Sayle in it (and Lee Marvin and William Hurt). I saw the start of the film several times, one end of term, when I was covering another teacher's Meeja Studies classes. It drove me nuts as I never saw the complete film. I wonder if any of the pupils ever got to watch the ending?

When I started to think about espionage films all those feelings of frustration came back to haunt me.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 25 Feb 2006, 13:38

Well, the first one of us to get a copy of it can lend it to the other. They show it on the telly sometimes too.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 25 Feb 2006, 13:48

Dadaist wrote:Well, the first one of us to get a copy of it can lend it to the other.

Done!

They show it on the telly sometimes too.

I'm sure I miss lots of films I'd like to see. We've got the full movie package from Blueyonder (only because,weirdly enough, it was the cheapest way to get all the sports channels

) but it all seems too much to keep track of and I never check what's on and when. "Option fatigue", isn't that what they call it?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 25 Feb 2006, 14:00

Film Four is good, but I have a thing for TCM as well!

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 25 Feb 2006, 17:05

Marya wrote:Meeja Studies classes.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 25 Feb 2006, 17:17

foxy wrote:
Marya wrote:Meeja Studies classes.

It's a subject of Paramount importance in the 21st Century Foxy.

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 26 Feb 2006, 13:11

Dadaist wrote:
foxy wrote:
Marya wrote:Meeja Studies classes.

It's a subject of Paramount importance in the 21st Century Foxy.

Universally

bearcub · Post by **bearcub** » 26 Feb 2006, 23:32

On the subject of good films.........had a "God, I'm getting old" moment at work the other day.

We were talking about trans-sexuals (don't ask) and I mentioned that "Crying Game" was a tremendous film, which was met with a lot of blank looks from my 19, 23 & 26 yr old "desk-mates".

Upon going somewhat into the plot (although not spoiling the twist.....the fact we were talking about trans-sexuals might have pointed them in the right direction however

) they proclaimed "some of those old films sound really good, we really need to watch more of them".

It's not that old, is it.............

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 26 Feb 2006, 23:34

Apparently it is if you're 19, 23 or 26!!

My kids think Grease is an old film!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 26 Feb 2006, 23:59

I still don't think colour will catch on.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 27 Feb 2006, 13:58

Epykat wrote:My kids think Grease is an old film!

Grease IS an old film! Even I was only five when it came out!

CatzVP · Post by **CatzVP** » 27 Feb 2006, 14:08

Bellybabe wrote: Grease IS an old film! Even I was only five when it came out!

You mean Grease came out in 1990 !!

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 27 Feb 2006, 18:07

It's a VERY old film - I was a student when it came out!

mr magnolia · Post by **mr magnolia** » 28 Feb 2006, 00:06

Dadaist wrote:
Marya wrote:Thanks for reminding me Dada. I've seen the start of 'Gorky Park' several times, but never all the way through. Wonder if it is around on DVD these days? Please don't say it's not worth watching, I'll be so disappointed
Never seen it! It's about a Soviet-era domestic cop, isn't it?

It's a better book than film.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 28 Feb 2006, 11:14

TTSP was a phenomenon when it was on TV - a real 'watercooler' topic (except we did not have them then!). Each episode was on twice a week and still folk got confused. I've read it at least once every 2 years for 25 years or more.......... and still find it enjoyably hard-going. Just wait til you try The Hon Schoolboy, Dada - I'm still not sure I get it!!!!

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 14:22

Good grief - just found I have a copy of "The Hon Schoolboy" in French!!!!
Want to borrow it, Dada??!!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Mar 2006, 14:29

Poppy wrote:TTSP was a phenomenon when it was on TV - a real 'watercooler' topic (except we did not have them then!). Each episode was on twice a week and still folk got confused. I've read it at least once every 2 years for 25 years or more.......... and still find it enjoyably hard-going. Just wait til you try The Hon Schoolboy, Dada - I'm still not sure I get it!!!!

I knew there was someone else out there!!

"enjoyably hard-going" is a great turn of phrase

and in response to your offer of TOS in French - non, merci!

I just finished my watch of Tinker Tailor on DVD and got something new from it yet again! (I hadn't understood Allaline's "muddying pools" bit where Smiley works out that Karla is trying to spin through Poliakov that Tar's approach about the mole is actually a Soviet misinformation ploy)

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 14:40

That's it - I'm going to have to do a read through of the Smiley books again!! Starting with the 'easy' Call for the Dead and Murder of Quality!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Mar 2006, 14:44

Poppy wrote:That's it - I'm going to have to do a read through of the Smiley books again!! Starting with the 'easy' Call for the Dead and Murder of Quality!

Can you list the Smiley books for me?

Is there stuff surrounding his WW2 work?

I seem to remember a really brief mention of him in The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, but that's not really a Smiley book. Is "Control" the same chap throughout?

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 15:00

Will do list later today once plumber gone and I've been for the messages!

There is fair amount of "flashback" to his WW2 work in Call for the Dead. But I do get the info from the various books mixed up after so many readings!

One thing to beware of with LC is that his 'back stories' are a bit inconsistent so you don't get a true history of anyone or anything!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Mar 2006, 15:09

Poppy wrote:Will do list later today once plumber gone and I've been for the messages!

There is fair amount of "flashback" to his WW2 work in Call for the Dead. But I do get the info from the various books mixed up after so many readings!

One thing to beware of with LC is that his 'back stories' are a bit inconsistent so you don't get a true history of anyone or anything!

I'm happy to take the rough with the smooth as far as Le Carre is concerned - I really didn't like either "The Looking Glass War" or "Smiley's People", but "The Spy Who Came In From The Cold" and "Tinker Tailor" are very hard acts to follow!

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 19:53

I call these the Smiley books:

Call for the Dead
A Murder of Quality
Tinker ...
The Hon Schoolboy
Smiley's People

Have you read A Small Town in Germany? The same type of story/era as The Looking Glass War, The Spy Who Came in From the Cold.

Did not like The Little Drummer Girl much. Nor his Perfect Spy. Quite liked The Russia House.

I am so fond of and seduced by the Smiley and Cold War books that I've found it difficult to try his later stuff although I really should.......

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Mar 2006, 19:59

Poppy wrote:
Have you read A Small Town in Germany?

No! Nor have I read the ones in the list that aren't "Tinker Tailor" - I do need to get hold of "Schoolboy".

What would be really good would be audio recordings (which must exist) as the mp3 of Tinker Tailor is top notch, really atmospheric.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 20:25

Dadaist wrote:
Poppy wrote:
Have you read A Small Town in Germany?

No! Nor have I read the ones in the list that aren't "Tinker Tailor" - I do need to get hold of "Schoolboy".

What would be really good would be audio recordings (which must exist) as the mp3 of Tinker Tailor is top notch, really atmospheric.

I can lend you the first two and A Small Town if you like. I'd offer you a loan the HS, but I've just discovered that I don't have my copy of it. Think Mr Poppy may have it OR I had to chuck it out as it was falling to bits!! I'll be replacing it once I've established the situation!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Mar 2006, 22:43

Yes please, but you should know that my POL book borrowing record has, so far, a 0% return rate.

I have borrowed "Cloud Atlas", "Garden Of Beasts" and "Man Is Wolf To Man" and returned none of them yet.

I am a bad borrowing risk - you'd be better off with a PPP consortium!

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 22:56

Any probs from you, young man, and I'll send Portly and his Pal after you!!

Or I'll release the results of my surveillance of Dada Towers!!

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 22:58

Oh!

Why don't we use a dead letter drop in the third tree on the left in Figgy Park!! Bring your chalk!!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 01 Mar 2006, 23:10

Poppy wrote:Oh! Why don't we use a dead letter drop in the third tree on the left in Figgy Park!! Bring your chalk!!

Aha - Moscow Rules!

Since finding out about your Smiley connection I have forgiven your previous surveillance sins. Just remember that you work for me now ...

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 01 Mar 2006, 23:17

Work for yoy? I think Control at the Coal Board will have something to say about that!!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 02 Mar 2006, 00:16

Poppy wrote:Work for yoy? I think Control at the Coal Board will have something to say about that!!

Oh him? I think you'll find that after Operation Cress Sandwich he will be finished.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 03 Mar 2006, 21:48

Matty (heh heh)

Hope to pop Call for the Dead off at Dada Towers tomorrow.

K

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 04 Mar 2006, 01:19

Poppy wrote:Matty (heh heh)

Hope to pop Call for the Dead off at Dada Towers tomorrow.

K

Looking forward to it - although tomorrow is a bit of a write-off given how enormously drunk I am just now after the Porty TV party.