Portobello Graf - Our own Style Wars?

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 26 Sep 2006, 19:21

Before anyone starts, this is an APPRECIATION thread... just so no one gets the wrong idea...

Over the last couple of weeks, you may have noticed that graf writers and stencil painters have been bombing your neighbourhood.

I thought it was about time to catalogue these pieces, so here we go...

If anyone spots one that I have missed, PM me and I'll sort it out.
I cannot accept any responsibility for any of these pieces

Piece 1
Piece 2
Piece 3
Piece 4
Piece 5
Piece 6
Piece 7
Piece 8
Piece 9
Piece 10
Piece 11
Piece 12
Piece 13
Piece 14

Mad IV props to the writers.

Everyone else, if you liked these, then you'll love this guy

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 26 Sep 2006, 20:32

Sorry IV but I just don't get these. Banksy I do like - that piece in Bristol of the guy hanging out a window is eyecatching, witty and decorative, but I don't see much artistic talent being displayed in these tags. I don't see how using a stencil is a display of individuality and rebellion. Am I just getting old??:?

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 26 Sep 2006, 21:11

Well Marya, those are your words and not mine.

'Eyecatching, witty and decorative'... That is the weakest thing I've heard in a while.

People are sitting in bedrooms, cutting out stencils they have designed themselves and then taking to the streets in secret at night and painting them in Porty's back alley's and streets. I think this is fantastic and deserves a bit of love! I think that this demonstrates that there is a bit of a subculture in Porty after all.

Respect is due. I have taken half a hour to start a wee page for Porty's paint hedz!

[here]

Novastar · Post by **Novastar** » 26 Sep 2006, 22:47

Not getting at these specifically but -

Have no problem with proper graffiti in the right place - some stuff can look amazing. However spraying your name on someone's wall is not cool. Not only does that belong to somone but it looks messy. How would you like it if someone came up to your front door and wrote their name all over it?

Also with the stencils - I have no problem if someone has crafted a piece of art and uses it but these shop bought stencils which seem to be springing up round Leith at the moment of a bloke in a roman solider's outfit - what is the point?

There is a line between art and vandalism.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 26 Sep 2006, 23:15

I love the space invader, but I never knew the stencils were shop bought - that is a bit naff!

If there is a line between art & vandalism then Mount Rushmore is vandalism!

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 27 Sep 2006, 08:43

Man, this has turned into a totally weak thread!

Novastar - you have no problem with 'proper graffiti' in 'the right place' ?! Would you like someone to help you put your slippers on dear? And careful you don't dribble your muesli, it might make a mess...

I do however take your point about shop bought stencils. Have you seen the stencils being sold in a shop, Novastar? As for the Porty paint, which ones do you reckon are shop bought?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 27 Sep 2006, 08:51

impossiblevoices wrote:Man, this has turned into a totally weak thread!

They say that the bad workman blames his tools.

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 27 Sep 2006, 08:53

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:25

I'm neither offended or particularly impressed by those. I would say its better than nothing but thats about it.

rathbone · Post by **rathbone** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:32

To quote Banksy:

" They say graffiti frightens people and is symbolic of the decline in society, but graffiti is only dangerous in the minds of three types of people; politicians, advertising executives and graffiti writers."

Perhaps more relevant to IV's collection, Mr. B also makes the point:

"All artists are prepared to suffer for their work, but why are so few prepared to learn to draw?"

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:41

Your first quote Rathbone (source : "Wall and Piece", page 1) follows on...

"The people who truly deface our neighbourhoods are the companies that scrawl giant slogans across buildings and buses trying to make us feel inadequate unless we buy their stuff"

And the comment about drawing,

Banksy gave up trying to draw his work because when he did most of his murals came out "thick as sh*t", to quote the man.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:41

IV how can you compare what Banksy does e.g.Naked Man mural
with this for example ?

Is it 'art' if it says 'YLT Ya Bas' on your garage door or does it just become 'art' when it's some art college student who is the spray painter, regardless of how ugly and disfiguring their tag may be?

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:55

So, there are clear differences between the two pieces.

However, where do you think painters like Banksy started out? I mean, do you have any appreciation of the background culture that stuff like this on our streets represents?

There is a music, a dresscode, a code of conduct, a set of responsibilities and a general ethos that goes hand in hand with this stuff. Did you realise that? Have you ever been part of anything like that?

Go [here][here] and [here] for more lessons

Zargonian · Post by **Zargonian** » 27 Sep 2006, 10:01

Banksy rules!

Not sure about this kind of graffiti. Sure it has artistic value in way, but would not want my beloved Porty covered in it.

Reminds me of the olde days when Y.N.T. and the like were scrawled all over the place.

Zargonian · Post by **Zargonian** » 27 Sep 2006, 10:03

impossiblevoices wrote:So, there are clear differences between the two pieces.

However, where do you think painters like Banksy started out? I mean, do you have any appreciation of the background culture that stuff like this on our streets represents?

There is a music, a dresscode, a code of conduct, a set of responsibilities and a general ethos that goes hand in hand with this stuff. Did you realise that? Have you ever been part of anything like that?

Go [here][here] and [here] for more lessons

Sounds like you've got issues I.V.

Trends are made, then easily forgotten.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 27 Sep 2006, 10:09

Did the owners commission these artists to produce a 'piece' then? If it's art then do it on a bit of canvas and hang it on your living room wall. It's not art - it's vandalism of somebody else's property. And 'piece 2' was a bit close with the spray can - runs are not a good look........

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 27 Sep 2006, 10:09

impossiblevoices wrote:So, there are clear differences between the two pieces.

However, where do you think painters like Banksy started out? I mean, do you have any appreciation of the background culture that stuff like this on our streets represents?

There is a music, a dresscode, a code of conduct, a set of responsibilities and a general ethos that goes hand in hand with this stuff. Did you realise that? Have you ever been part of anything like that?

Go [here][here] and [here] for more lessons

Yeah Marya. Like, you just don't understand.

iv - I really don't think your evangelical hectoring is going to convert any of these squares.

Imagine if you were trying to get us to join the military, or a church. They have music, dress, conduct, responsibilities and an ethos too. It's not about that though - it's what they actually *do* - and yet somehow you feel the need to inflict this on us, and call us "weak" if we don't sign up to your wee club.

If it was religion you were being so tight about, you'd be calling us non-believers.

Aesop wrote fables about your approach - it doesn't work.

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 27 Sep 2006, 10:24

Dada,

you are totally right my man! Hold on till I climb down off this horse I've found myself on...

The rest of you make sure you have a copy of one of Banksy's books on your coffee table so when your friends come round, you can tell them all about the contemporary art that you find yourself drawn to...

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 27 Sep 2006, 13:46

I guess I must be getting old but still have a little bit of life in me.

I totally agree with the comments made earlier about the corporate bombardment of logos and adverts around our everyday space whether we like it or not but if someone wants to paint something on my garage door, no matter how brilliant it is, I would rather they asked me first.

I do like some graffitti however and the background to my computer for some time now has been Wangi's picture of the graffitti in the swing park by Towerbank school.

Radical man!

rathbone · Post by **rathbone** » 27 Sep 2006, 16:00

There's nothing wrong with being on a high horse.... it usually provokes a reaction, (doesn't it Dada?)

In answer to your earlier questions:

impossiblevoices wrote: I mean, do you have any appreciation of the background culture that stuff like this on our streets represents?
There is a music, a dresscode, a code of conduct, a set of responsibilities and a general ethos that goes hand in hand with this stuff. Did you realise that? Have you ever been part of anything like that?

The answers are Yes, Yes and Yes.

On your other point: "The rest of you make sure you have a copy of one of Banksy's books on your coffee table so when your friends come round, you can tell them all about the contemporary art that you find yourself drawn to."

My copy is in my work space along with all the other books I consult when I'm ripping off....sorry, looking for inspiration.

At the very least, Banksy is quotable. My last for the day: " Nothing in the world is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Leave the house before you find something worth staying in for."

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 27 Sep 2006, 16:16

CLIP CLIP CLIP CLIP

WHOOOAH THERE BOY! WHOOOOOAH THERE!

I have no idea what you're talking about, Rathers. I have no idea what it feels like to be on a "high horse".

HYA! HYA! GIDDY UP NOW BOY!

CLIP CLOP CLIP CLOP

Novastar · Post by **Novastar** » 28 Sep 2006, 15:32

impossiblevoices wrote:I do however take your point about shop bought stencils. Have you seen the stencils being sold in a shop, Novastar? As for the Porty paint, which ones do you reckon are shop bought?

Have seen the ones around Leith in a shop up near the Tron. They're little purple soliders. I thought it might be an advertising thing when I first saw it but doesn't seem to be. Don't know if they've reached Porty yet - haven't seen any.

PoP - agree with the nonsense that is modern advertising but like you say - still no excuse to vandalise property.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 28 Sep 2006, 15:52

I would like to ask IV :

Say your house was up for sale, and had a bare wall on the street which got tagged the night before you were due to have people viewing it - and their surveyors estimating its value.

What would you do?

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 28 Sep 2006, 15:56

I would quickly cut out a Banksy stencil, tag it with his name and say...

"Oh that...? Yeah my mate Banksy did that when he used to live here, Brad Pitt's coming up to look at it next week... So this is the hallway, plenty of natural light gets in here, as you can see..."

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 28 Sep 2006, 16:02

So you think it's ok for people to get the side of their houses tagged?

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 28 Sep 2006, 16:45

Has this happened to you or someone you care about...?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 28 Sep 2006, 17:02

In the case of multiple questioning, I think it's nice for things to be chronological. So howsabout you answer first, to be swiftly followed by me answering you!

Unless you were answering a question with a question - in which case I would simply like to refer you to the initial question and, with the greatest of respect, ask that you answer it first.

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 28 Sep 2006, 17:07

Indeed Sir, then I shall answer forthwith and reply to your question with a resounding 'No!' I do not think it is alright for someone's home to be tagged!

I hope that this has cleared up any questions you may have had regarding the order that the questions were presented in and forsooth, I look forward with anticipation to your reply,

Your servant,

iv.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 28 Sep 2006, 17:28

Cool. No, nobody I know has been defaced - but if you look down the side of the big new flats at Abbeyhill (top of Lower London Road - where the dodgy fire was that cleared the last shop from the site) where the railway line is - they have been royally painted.

I'd be spitting if I lived in those flats.

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 28 Sep 2006, 17:35

Yeah, had noticed they had been bombed. That kind of site is asking for it - BIG wall, shady area to work in piece, off the main road, that type of thing...

Anyway, those flats are horrible!

(*grovels and scrapes to any posters who live there...*)

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 28 Sep 2006, 17:36

found [this] guide for any residents wanting to get rid...

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 28 Sep 2006, 17:46

Those flats are disgusting.

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 28 Sep 2006, 18:00

So, to go from graffiti ->

to hip hop ->

to my old crew - P.S.i. - Pimp Snookie Inc. !

I have been 'diggin in the crates' for some of my old crews material and I had put a site together for us which is now defunct, but I still have some of the audio on my server...

There are three tracks [here], [here] and [here]

Although the mp3's are tagged as being 2006, they are infact a lot older. They were all written and recorded with no computer! Everything hardware, including a hardware sequencer and fostex recorder...

I think they still sound fantastic!

Oh yeah - THEY CONTAIN ADULT THEMES AND ARE NOT FOR MINORS etc.

rathbone · Post by **rathbone** » 29 Sep 2006, 18:19

Hip-hop: I was enjoying this thread until I was rapped over the knuckles by the thought police for using the * word.

Now, to get back to Graffiti:

There was a good book on the subject, called The Writing On The Wall, by Roger Perry and George Melly, which was published in 1976. Melly makes the following comment:

"Graffiti, appearing and fading, offers a series of advertisements for people. It is the antithesis of commercial advertising. It is spontaneous, ungeared to profit and frequently, whether by design or hazard, beautiful. This is not a plea to make it respectable. It must remain an underground art or die."

Which leads to the question: is it art?

For me, the best definition of art that I've come across is that by Joseph Beuys: "Art is the expression of perceptual thinking through the use of media."

On that definition ten out of the fourteen pieces in IV's first post ( allowing for the repetitions) are art. The four that aren't are tags. Tagging is territorial and while all such signatures are tags, not all tags are art.

Even keeping within the definition of "art" are Martin Kippenberger's paintings of graffiti, graffiti by the back door, or is Banksy's elephant art by the front door?

IV, have you ever considered a project to develop sonic graffiti? ........ you open the stair door and it sets off a little iv jingle. You lift up the lid of the wheely bin and there it goes again. The possibilities are limitless.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 29 Sep 2006, 21:24