Remembrance Day

mr magnolia · Post by **mr magnolia** » 12 Nov 2006, 11:49

I remember many years ago while I was young and the world was larger and George Bush was just some other Texan millionaire and TB was still at school.

Remembrance days/sundays were a sombre day and there were a lot more of the WW1/WW2 people still around and it was really 'their' day. Even then, my callow youthful self felt uncomfortable with the formalised aspect of people 'giving' their lives for 'their' country. In particular, the Ted Heath dark days and rolling power cuts made me struggle to understand why I or anyone else might want to run off and die in order to, er, do something that some twonk in the Government had decided needed doing.

Anyways that all faded quickly in the face of conflicts closer to home, like the usually fruitless task trying to get various lovely ladies to believe that I was indeed a vision of male loveliness myself.

Now with my own little ones, and with the high-profile echo of the various Iraq/Kuwait type 'conflicts' still vibrating n the national psyche, I wonder even more about the bizarreness of the human race.

So when I explain what a poppy is and represents (avoiding the oddness of even attempting to explain the photo of a military type wearing a poppy in Afghanistan...) how am I able in any rational way to reconcile a sense of loss and a wish to help commemorate the human sacrifice made while at the same time trying to explain that infact their lives were wasted because of something akin to a large extended family squabble? Gangstas, writ large, in fact. And the answer to the 'why' question is even harder now than it was to me 30 odd years ago.

Not very clear in my thoughts here, but it's perhaps a demonstration of my confusion..

tom nimmo · Post by **tom nimmo** » 12 Nov 2006, 12:52

I share your sense of confusion Mr M. I have never worn a poppy because I just don't see what difference it will make to the world. Remembrance of the fallen allows governments of the day to continue starting political and economical wars and then telling us that the casualties died for our freedom. From what you have written Mr M I would guess that you and I are about the same age. In my lifetime I cannot think of a single war that has made the world a safer place. In my opinion, World War Two was the only 'just' war fought and, had I been alive at the time, it's the only war that I would have joined the army for. Not much more to add on this subject other than I have a huge respect for those who do benefit from a remembrance day, but it's just not for me.

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 12 Nov 2006, 14:37

World War II was a war against fascism of the worst kind. It was a cause against a wicked ideology.

No war since has been like that. As MM states ... it's like gangsterism and territorial disputes these days.

I won't wear a Poppy for several reasons. Who makes them? The Haig Foundation. Haig? A complete lunatic who wasted thousands of young men's lives.

War is said to be the last refuge of a scoundrel ... I won't support anyone who wages it.

I had forebears who died in completely pointless and needless wars. I don't need to be reminded of them by a National Day of Mourning.

ali · Post by **ali** » 12 Nov 2006, 16:01

It's a sobering fact that my generation is almost certainly the first and only generation in recorded history which hasn't had to serve some kind of compulsory military service.................................................................and that's something for which I (and all three Services no doubt if they'd ever got their hands on me), am truly grateful.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 12 Nov 2006, 16:30

I am shocked at what I am reading here

Two of my sons were very much involved in today.

Son number one who has been in both Gulf Wars Afghanistan and many more with the Army

Son number three is just now wanting to join the R.A.F.

Both have been to church today with poppies on and paying there respect to friends and loved ones that are no longer with us

Maybe some people here should have also went and then maybe the could have learned what today is realy about

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 12 Nov 2006, 17:15

Izzie. Your kids have chosen a brave track to follow and respect to both you and them. It is not one that I would choose or be happy if one of children did. I broadly agree with Mr Magnolia but its difficult issue.

Many parents and family members who have partners or children are against them being sent to Iraq and or Afghanistan, they don't feel the wars are justified. How do you feel about that Izzie? If you wish your views to remain private, apologies for asking.

I wear a poppy as two of my uncles fought and were honored in WW2 and wearing a poppy became habitual. My grandma died on remeberance day in 64 or 65. It was 1963.

Edit 1963

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 12 Nov 2006, 17:33

About the kids joining up.When the first one joined all was well then,but then the fisrt Gulf war came and we were in shock I think at the time.
He had his 21st over there just before the war started and his first xmas away from home.
We were ill with worry even to the point that we had to go to docs for us to get the help we needed

As for my third son it has got to the point I think that if we dont support him he will do it anyway but has agreed to go to uni first

As far as the fighting going on just now, all the forces should be brought home this is not our war and this is what parents,wives and all the children that have loved ones fighting just now think
Bring back our loved ones

Sorry rant over

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 12 Nov 2006, 21:43

That does not qualify as a rant. It is well considered heart-felt statement, thanks for that Izzie. Don't know how you cope with all that worry.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 13 Nov 2006, 00:05

Well said Izzy. I feel for you.

Defending ones country against facism is one thing but the current conflict seems to be about money.

I'd like to think I was a pacifist but wear a poppy to remember those that died, all of them, those sent to concentration camps, the civilians bombed, the ships sank, the combatants killed and most of all their families and friends. My dad's brother, a sailor, was killed in Feb 1945 . Was mentioned but in the family but not talked about much so I never really thought about it til visiting Gran during the Falklands conflict. The tv was showing a ship in trouble and Gran was weeping " och, their poor mothers". She was 80 odd and still feeling the pain