New Portobello campaign group - Masterplan Action Group

[seanie]

Honestly.

[Nelson Hatstand]

Do you think comment no 3 is by the bloke out of The Orb?

[Porty]

I'm losing track of our local campaign Groups does POL (as opposed to TP) plan to have a directory of these groups, along with contact details?

So far and I can't be sure that this is a definitive list:

Funpark Action Group : FAG
Portobello Masterplan Action Group: PMAG
Portobello Park Action Group: PPAG
Portobello For New Schools: PFANS
Portobello Campaign Against the Superstore. PCATS
Portobello Against the Dump: PAD

Do we have groups against Jet Skis and halfway houses?

[Poppy]

PACG - Portobello Against Campaign Groups???

[wangi]

As somebody commented... Portobello surely is the NIMBY capital of Scotland!

[Puerto bella]

Either that or folk have too much time on their hands.

[wangi]

Either that or folk have too much time on their hands.

A bit of a self defeating comment that one!

[seanie]

Maybe an umbrella organisation is needed to coordinate campaigns.

Portobello Residents Against ThingS

[Puerto bella]

Excellent idea Seanie.

I think its so short sighted to be so negative, especially now we have a new Planning (Scotland) Act (2006) which gives powers to developers to 'buy off' communities in exchange for development. Its not been used yet in Scotland but if timed right Porty could be a first to try it out. We could, if co-ordinated in a positive fashion end up with some real community benefit from developments such as proposed. When you think of the profits developments generate you could be talking about an awful lot of money. Its best not left to the Council to negotiate, their track record on Planning Gain in Porty is non existant - a Porty group with a view to getting community planning gain would be better than an anti- group.

[Porty]

a Porty group with a view to getting community planning gain would be better than an anti- group.

And PFANS have proved that.

[Dadaist]

I'm losing track of our local campaign Groups does POL (as opposed to TP) plan to have a directory of these groups, along with contact details?

So far and I can't be sure that this is a definitive list:

Funpark Action Group : FAG
Portobello Masterplan Action Group: PMAG
Portobello Park Action Group: PPAG
Portobello For New Schools: PFANS
Portobello Campaign Against the Superstore. PCATS
Portobello Against the Dump: PAD

Do we have groups against Jet Skis and halfway houses?

Someone wanted to sign me up to opposing some proposal about a house near me being used for "paedophiles, drug dealers and arsonists" and were full of scare stories about how the perverts and dope fiends would be hanging out at the school gates if the development of the new school went ahead (this was for a B&B nearby).

I replied that yes, and I was also worried that the arsonists might buy petrol from the nearby Tesco and torch the new school too.

[Porty]

Good answer. I was more thinking of the John Street situtaion.

[Dadaist]

Good answer. I was more thinking of the John Street situtaion.

It's the victory of the PABM (Portobello Against Brian McCrow) campaign that I celebrate.

[Bob Jefferson]

I'm losing track of our local campaign Groups does POL (as opposed to TP) plan to have a directory of these groups, along with contact details?

So far and I can't be sure that this is a definitive list:

Funpark Action Group : FAG
Portobello Masterplan Action Group: PMAG
Portobello Park Action Group: PPAG
Portobello For New Schools: PFANS
Portobello Campaign Against the Superstore. PCATS
Portobello Against the Dump: PAD

Do we have groups against Jet Skis and halfway houses?

I'm happy to list any local group that provides me with contact details. The odd one out in your list is of course PFANS as it is the only one that stands FOR something.

My own action group will be announced shortly. I haven't actually decided what it is yet, but it doesn't really matter because it will have an acronym beginning with P. That should in itself be enough to secure an article in the EN. I will be telling anyone who is willing to listen, along with people who aren't, that people are deeply concerned and I will be demanding that the Council start listening to the community. I want a public meeting in the Town Hall, at which I will of course be guest speaker. I will be shouting at you with the aid of a megaphone on Portobello High Street and inviting you to sign my petition as well as my online petition. And I will of course be hanging one of my few remaining bed-sheets from the Town Hall, badly painted in red in time-honoured tradition.

Prepare your pitch forks people! A boat that flies above the water? Pah! This isn't a hovercraft, this is witchcraft!

[Porty]

I'm losing track of our local campaign Groups does POL (as opposed to TP) plan to have a directory of these groups, along with contact details?

So far and I can't be sure that this is a definitive list:

Funpark Action Group : FAG
Portobello Masterplan Action Group: PMAG
Portobello Park Action Group: PPAG
Portobello For New Schools: PFANS
Portobello Campaign Against the Superstore. PCATS
Portobello Against the Dump: PAD

Do we have groups against Jet Skis and halfway houses?

I'm happy to list any local group that provides me with contact details. The odd one out in your list is of course PFANS as it is the only one that stands FOR something.
!

Ahem!!!

[Bob Jefferson]

Well they stand for something as acronyms obviously.

[wangi]

The odd one out in your list is of course PFANS as it is the only one that stands FOR something.

That's probably just a point of view... Isn't it against the against group?

[Bob Jefferson]

Probably, but only in the sense that logic requires it to be so.

[wangi]

Probably, but only in the sense that logic requires it to be so.

Uhhu, but lets assume PPAG are for the Park... They aren't per-se against a new school

That's the problem with these pointless interest groups - they are far too simplistic to capture the reality of the situation and the dynamic of the community. In reality the majority of the people are between the two polar view points of PFANS and PPAG.

It's also very insulting when these sort of interest groups falsely describe themselves as representing the community.

[Puerto bella]

Porty:"And PFANS have proved that."

I don't think they have in terms of what I was referring to. I had in mind primarily the Masterplan area and what the community could get out of it over and above the norm as is allowed under the new act. It would be a formal process upon which the grant of planning permission was dependant. In the past the planning gain rules were quite different and didn't allow for 'pay offs' to communities in exchange for planning permission.

[Bob Jefferson]

Portobello Against Peter Piper plc.

Save our pickled peppers! He only wants a peck now, but where will it end? Meeting at Town Hall.

[Porty]

You are on form. The holiday must have done you good.

[seanie]

That's the problem with these pointless interest groups - they are far too simplistic to capture the reality of the situation and the dynamic of the community. In reality the majority of the people are between the two polar view points of PFANS and PPAG.

It's also very insulting when these sort of interest groups falsely describe themselves as representing the community.

There not pointless but I agree they don't really reflect the reality of opinion.

On one hand it’s good that there are people actively engaged in local issues and that’s a reflection that Portobello does have a distinct character and some sense of community. But I’m not sure they necessarily give an accurate reflection of what “the community” actually thinks. In many instances I think the opinion of the majority goes unheard largely because the majority doesn’t have a strong opinion and it takes a degree of conviction to bother setting up a campaign group. That’s not to say most people are indifferent but just that they may have mixed feelings.

Even on a genuinely contentious issue such as the schools the presence of PFANS and PPAG don’t really reflect the scope of opinion because those groups represent people who are in favour or against whereas the majority of people are somewhere in between. I think it’s safe to say that most people aren’t keen on building on parks but I think most people would consider it justifiable in some circumstances. That still leaves considerable scope for disagreement about whether it would be justified in this instance but that more nuanced discussion tends to get lost when you have two opposing pressure groups trying to counter each other. But although their presence may have polarised the issue at least two views were being presented. There are issues where that just won’t happen.

I’ve no doubt there were many people who weren’t bothered by or were keen on having a new superstore but a campaign in favour was never likely, any more than you’ll get a campaign in favour of a waste transfer station. How many people may be amenable to such things is difficult to tell because that kind of opinion is largely excluded.

There’s sometimes an unintended element of totalitarianism in community activism. People seem dissatisfied with merely expressing a personal opinion or even speaking for a group. As you say they much prefer to speak for “the community.” But I think they do so sincerely.

I said in another thread how people proceed in a self-affirming bubble of inaccuracy. They read papers that reflect their own views and tend to mix with people of similar outlook. If you have a friend you know to have a different opinion on a contentious subject then the topic may be avoided for fear of falling out. Unless of course you’re an argumentative bugger.

But if most people who you discuss issues with agree with you, you may get a false impression of just how widespread your opinions are. You might be lead to think your views really are that of the majority instead of just a small sub-section of that community. That’s actually a difficult line the Community Council has to tread. Because it isn’t there to represent the views of its members, it’s there to represent the views of the community.

When it comes to the Community Council I’m sure many people will have strong views on the Masterplan. However I’m not so sure about the community at large.

[Porty]

There’s sometimes an unintended element of totalitarianism in community activism. People seem dissatisfied with merely expressing a personal opinion or even speaking for a group. As you say they much prefer to speak for “the community.” But I think they do so sincerely.

In this context, can you elaborate on the meaning of sincerely?

[seanie]

I think that they think that the thoughts they are thinking are thought by most others.

They say they speak for "the community" because they sincerely believe they do.

[Porty]

Thanks, I thought thats wha you meant.

Maybe thats why a lot of those who sincerely believe they speak for the community are so negative and averse to Talkporty? They don't like being publicly challenged and brought to book over their sincerley held but erroneous beliefs.

I'm almost certain thats the reason.

[ali]

Thanks, I thought thats what you meant.

Maybe thats why a lot of those who sincerely believe they speak for the community are so negative and averse to Talkporty? They don't like being publicly challenged and brought to book over their sincerley held but erroneous beliefs.

I'm almost certain thats the reason.

I am almost certain that you are right and I sincerely believe it. The self appointed community representatives avoid this place like the plague because they would be held to account here.

[impossiblevoices]

Hello all. Sorry for lack of input of late. First of all, apologies for starting the other thread (Wangi, cheers for pointing me in the direction of this one) - I didn't realise that this had become such an issue already...

So, is anyone going to admit to being a member of The Portobello Masterplan Action Group?

Really, I don't see how something which is so monumental - cos lets face it, a hovercraft service to Fife is pretty big cheese - can be berated so badly by local residents.

We have a high street full of charity shops. We have a situation where most of the pubs are shutting down. We have next to nothing going on in the Promenade area at all and we have shops like 'Booze Buster' opening up on the High Street too.

How can anything which brings hundreds of people through Porty every day and attracts attention to our stagnant wee town be so bad for us?

By the way, do any of you think that it could have been a Masterplan Agent that demolished one of the Pyramids...?!

Hovercrafts and pyramids rock! Peace out!

[Porty]

So, is anyone going to admit to being a member of The Portobello Masterplan Action Group?

R!

For more than a year now I have been trying to prise the names and contacts details of the other PCATS committee members that Stephen Hawkins and Diana Cairns refer to in their now rare communications to their supporters. I'm almost certain that those other committee members don't exist.

[ali]

According to the Evening News article - "PMAG spokeswoman Caroline Hosking".

This is a name I recognise but I can't remember where from.

[wangi]

According to the Evening News article - "PMAG spokeswoman Caroline Hosking".

This is a name I recognise but I can't remember where from.

She stood for Solidarity at the recent council election.

[ali]

According to the Evening News article - "PMAG spokeswoman Caroline Hosking".

This is a name I recognise but I can't remember where from.

She stood for Solidarity at the recent council election.

That speaks volumes.

Didn't they also hijack the "save Meadowbank stadium" campaign?

[Porty]

According to the Evening News article - "PMAG spokeswoman Caroline Hosking".

This is a name I recognise but I can't remember where from.

Caroline is a newly elected member of PCC and used to post here as Carla. Yes she was a leading light in the hijack of SMC. you may also ken her for her association with

Funpark Action Group : FAG
Portobello Masterplan Action Group: PMAG
Portobello Park Action Group: PPAG
Portobello Campaign Against the Superstore. PCATS
Portobello Against the Dump: PAD

And the formative:

FAGPMAGPPAGPCATSPAD against crossing the Forth

Caroline is colloquially known as Action Girl. She is an undoubted contribtor to community life here in Portobello.

[ali]

Caroline is colloquially known as Action Girl. She is an undoubted contribtor to community life here in Portobello.

I remember Carla.
What did she stop posting here for? Did she get asked too many awkward questions? Did someone call her on her self-appointed Community representative tag?

Its just a pity that so few of her contributions could be regarded as positive.

In fact her main contribution over the hovercraft issue has been to re-inforce a growing perception from outside Portobello that we are a community of nimby's.

Well done Carla. Result.

[Porty]

I remember Carla.
What did she stop posting here for? Did she get asked too many awkward questions? .

Not exactly, you may be getting her confused with another departed soul, its an easy confusion. As far as I am aware, Carla hasn't officially stopped posting. She has been quiet since taking umbrage at me for summarising her statements in the schools thread. Which, as you may be aware is tantamount to bullying, at least in some peoples opinions. I think if her statements had been logical, substantive and/or realistic there wouldn't have been an issue.

Did someone call her on her self-appointed Community representative tag?
.

To be fair, I've not noticed Carla transgressing in this area. She is much more respectful than some of her "the community will fight this" cronies.