Its 9/11

[Porty]

As vivid as those memories are i'm still not instantly sure of how many years ago it was? Its 3 but I do have to doubletake.

Has the World changed or has it made no difference to our every day lives? I would say the latter.

I have a horrible feeling we are only a decade or so away from an All American 9/11 Blockbuster where the "Goodies" win.

I visited NYC for the first time the month before 9/11, I went again the year after. I couldn't bring myself to visit Ground Zero. I wonder if anyone here as visited or if they feel the same as I did?

[Jamesie]

I visited NYC for the first time the month before 9/11, I went again the year after. I couldn't bring myself to visit Ground Zero. I wonder if anyone here as visited or if they feel the same as I did?

I visited on a misty morning at the end of July. If you didn't know what had happened there you'd just see it as any other building site. But knowing what went on gave it a very eerie feeling. They still have the cross they found shaped out of girders on display.

James

[Gemini]

Was in NYC around 1993/4 when there was an attempted attack on the towers, the whole place was cordoned off - pretty scary stuff.

Visted a few times over the subsequent years and always marvelled at the sheer size of these structures. Like the rest of the world found it difficult to comprehend what I was seeing on TV 9/11 01.

The world is a much more dangerous place since this attack and subsequent war.

[Porty]

. Has the World changed or has it made no difference to our every day lives? I would say the latter.

I don't wish to be mis-understood. What I mean is that in our everyday lives, if there has been a change? I find it imperceptible. Globally speaking the World has become a more dangerous place.

About 18 months after it happened I met a guy I was at Uni with who told me that the Rugby Captain from university was killed instantly when the first plane hit the building, I think on the 81st floor. That piece of news brought it home.

I think Osama Bin Laden got a result that he couldn't possibly have dreamed about. He picked a fight with Bush whose reaction de-stabilised the whole western world. I wonder if things would have been different had the fight been picked with Clinton?

[ecm]

I spent that day on a training course and only heard of the events on returning to my desk at the end of the day. It was quite numbing.

On getting home there was no escaping the horrible images.

What I found very disturbing and depressing was that the American general public seemed to have no comprehension of why people out there in other parts of the world held them in such contempt. And now, thanks to the Blair/Bush alliance Britain is in the same boat.

The events of 3 years ago will undoubtedly be overshadowed by some further acts of extremism in the years ahead.
I fear there's no solution to this new culture of terrorism.

[bellybabe]

Our youngest son was six weeks old, in my arms, when my partner called and told me to turn on the TV. I remember feeling unable to comprehend what we were seeing but being terrified for what the future would mean to my sons.

In a daily living way, I don't feel it's made much difference to me, only a barely perceptible one. But then when I was at college in Manchester there was a state of high security alert for months for fear of the IRA, and I think maybe living with that constant vigilance for a while meant that i became accustomed to getting on with life under the shadow of fear.

[Gemini]

I wonder if things would have been different had the fight been picked with Clinton?[/quote]

Bill Clinton was always more Diplomatic than Bush, even if he was in bed with Monsanto and Monica - maybe not at the same time.
However, I think Clinton would not have been so hasty in his decision to go to war on Iraq.
Unfortunately the USA have a cowboy and warmonger as a President, and more worryingly , Tony seems to be swayed too easily by Bush..(note message from Downing Street to Whitehouse - Bush has been respectfully requested not to mention TB in any of his speeches - as it's not doing TB any favours in his run up to the election)

I am of the opinion that Saddam Hussain had to be 'taken out' but felt that other covert methods could have been implemented.

In short, I don't know how it would have turned out if the fight had been picked with Clinton?

I am also worried about terrorist attacks, up until now we have been lucky.

Here is one for you Porty - If a woman had been in Power in the USA and GB (excluding she who instill's hatred in so many) would we have went to War?

[wangi]

If a woman had been in Power in the USA and GB would we have went to War?

I really don't think you can generalise things that far! May as well just ask if we'd have went to war if a redhead was in office...

[ali]

I really don't think you can generalise things that far! May as well just ask if we'd have went to war if a redhead was in office...

well said that man.

good to have you back in the real world, wangi.

[Porty]

. Here is one for you Porty - If a woman had been in Power in the USA and GB (excluding she who instill's hatred in so many) would we have went to War?

Its a bit of a general question G but I will have a go. I think that the answer would have been yes in Afghanistan and no in Iraq. I am of the view, I dont know anyone that agrees with me, that although OBL planned that attack years ahead the execution was timed because of who was President. He wanted to provoke a retaliation and the chances were much higher with Bush. OBL got a major result. Cassius Clay used to say "rope a dope" and OBL certainly did

As for Saddam? I thnk the boy done good. Armed with a peashooter he managed to turn the vast majority of world opinion against he USA. Even if it is only for a short period of time, that is quite an achievement. As you say he needed dealt with and the US or UK could have done so at will. For example,Donald Rumsfeld could have electric shocked him to death when he was shaking his hand for a photo opportunity in the early 90's

[Porty]

If a woman had been in Power in the USA and GB would we have went to War?

I really don't think you can generalise things that far! May as well just ask if we'd have went to war if a redhead was in office...

Good point Wangi. Unless I am mistaken G's inference was that her gender would have less proclivity for War. Perhaps she is right, however we only have to look at the Black Widows of Chechyna as an example of what the fairer sex are capable of.

[Epykat]

we only have to look at the Black Widows of Chechyna as an example of what the fairer sex are capable of.

The female of the species is more deadly than the male...............

[Porty]

we only have to look at the Black Widows of Chechyna as an example of what the fairer sex are capable of.

The female of the species is more deadly than the male...............

Probably, but the vast majority of violence, of all kinds, is perpetrated by men.

[wangi]

we only have to look at the Black Widows of Chechyna as an example of what the fairer sex are capable of.

The female of the species is more deadly than the male...............

Probably, but the vast majority of violence, of all kinds, is perpetrated by men.

"Behind every great man's a great woman"

[Porty]

The female of the species is more deadly than the male...............

Probably, but the vast majority of violence, of all kinds, is perpetrated by men.

"Behind every great man's a great woman"

Whats your point caller?

[Mimpty]

Just hope nobody's got it in for redheads. We are much maligned.

[Dadaist]

In a toyshop today in Budapest - these models to make out of wood :








Not sure if the towers came with planes or not.

[Porty]

Not sure if the towers came with planes or not.

Nah, not today. Had you gone in on Saturday they may have been having a special offer.

[Jay]

Just hope nobody's got it in for redheads. We are much maligned.

Hear! Hear!

Aha! A fellow redhead! That ought to make bagging a bit easier! (except mine has darkened somewhat with the years!)

[Jay]

To come back to the original topic for a moment. Has anyone else seen the totally CHILLING documentary by two French film-makers who were with a New York fire-station the day it all happened and went out with the crews? They were brothers, and I most ashamed to say I have forgotten their names, although I HAVE kept the video. One brother was actually inside when one of the towers started to come down, and the other was outside and got buried - both still filming. There are things in those films that will haunt me forever - like the sound of the bodies of the people who jumped, hitting the pavement outside.

But then, I doubt if anyone is going to forget the video from inside the school at Beslan, and the film of the half-naked, terrified and injured kids running out at the end of it all.

[Gemini]

we only have to look at the Black Widows of Chechyna as an example of what the fairer sex are capable of.

The female of the species is more deadly than the male...............

and the most nurturing.

[Porty]

Jay, I saw that film. No script writer could have come up with the bit where the retired Fire Chief came to the station and recruited the rookie and they rode of to the fire.

It was the sound of the bodies hitting the canopy that was the worst. No matter how many times it happened the Firemen still shuddered violently. Truly horrific.

[Mimpty]

Jay,
I saw that too. I think that film-maker was the only one to record the first plane flying into the tower 1. It was a very harrowing film. Those firemen are/were incredibly brave.

Not that I've been to NY but I believe the people working at the sight are not keen on sightseers. No doubt it is different if you have a connection.

Every time I watched the Olympics I kept thinking " Will something happen?" There were thousands of people at the opening and closing ceremonies - there could have been carnage. Thank God nothing did.

(Jay - my hair has also darkened quite a bit, but I maintain it is auburn and hell mend anyone who tries to suggest otherwise)!

[Porty]

Is there no subject serious enough to dissuade women from talking about hair colour?

[Mimpty]

According to your picture, you have some explaining to do, Porty! What is that - a lime?

[Jay]

Should make him easy to bag ...............