Hovercraft / ferry service from Fife to Portobello?

Discussion and debate on the issues affecting Portobello
Post Reply
seanie
Posts: 2313
Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 20:43
Location: Brighton Place

Post by seanie » 13 Jul 2007, 12:19

So many to choose from. :D

I do actually have a book all about the DDA including the text of the original act. It'll be in an unopened box somewhere, not by my bed or anything, so it's not like I'm tragic friendless obsessive with nothing better to do than read up on primary legistlation.

Honest.

User avatar
Porty
Posts: 8514
Joined: 08 Jun 2004, 14:30
Location: Organic Market

Post by Porty » 13 Jul 2007, 12:24

Can we have a witness/ :D

User avatar
GRANTY
Posts: 169
Joined: 27 Aug 2005, 22:39
Location: PROMENADE

Post by GRANTY » 13 Jul 2007, 13:57

Wangi has kindly posted my photos of the hovercraft from yesterday on the GTT thread.

User avatar
wangi
[admin]
Posts: 3442
Joined: 27 May 2004, 10:37
Contact:

Post by wangi » 13 Jul 2007, 14:31

A rather ironic article in the Hootsmon today:
'No business case' for hovercraft

CONSULTANTS have found the viability of a cross-Forth hovercraft is "pretty hopeless", The Scotsman has learned, as a trial service makes its first passenger run today.

Feasibility work commissioned by Fife Council has shown that "no business case would stack up", it is understood.
Click to learn more...

The news comes as Stagecoach chief executive Brian Souter hosts the launch of a two-week hovercraft trial

...

The ongoing £750,000 study...

...

However, Stagecoach said it had opted for a hovercraft trial because efforts to launch a ferry between Burntisland and Granton had been hampered by Forth Ports, which owns both ports.

...
Article at: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotlan ... 1091572007

User avatar
Porty
Posts: 8514
Joined: 08 Jun 2004, 14:30
Location: Organic Market

Post by Porty » 13 Jul 2007, 15:31

Thats a bit disappointing but not really surprising.

User avatar
wangi
[admin]
Posts: 3442
Joined: 27 May 2004, 10:37
Contact:

Post by wangi » 13 Jul 2007, 15:51

Porty wrote:Thats a bit disappointing but not really surprising.
No, it is. Why waste money on a talking shop when somebody is out just doing it off their own back? £3/4M would probably buy your vessel... What makes Edinburgh any different to many cities based on a water front, which have many ferry services linking them? (For starters consider Auckland)

The Firth isn't a barrier, it should be looked at as a transport corridor.

User avatar
Porty
Posts: 8514
Joined: 08 Jun 2004, 14:30
Location: Organic Market

Post by Porty » 13 Jul 2007, 16:09

wangi wrote:
Porty wrote:Thats a bit disappointing but not really surprising.
No, it is. Why waste money on a talking shop when somebody is out just doing it off their own back? £3/4M would probably buy your vessel... What makes Edinburgh any different to many cities based on a water front, which have many ferry services linking them? (For starters consider Auckland)

The Firth isn't a barrier, it should be looked at as a transport corridor.
You've lost me. I must be misunderstanding something?

User avatar
Poppy
Posts: 3483
Joined: 08 Feb 2004, 12:02

Post by Poppy » 13 Jul 2007, 16:55

This might be of interest re crossing the Forth:

Replacement Forth Crossing Non-Technical Report

(the technical reports are also on the Transport Scotland website for those who'd understand them (e.g. or even i.e. Seanie!!))

Something needs to help take the load of the road (although a better rail service would also help!).

User avatar
Puerto bella
Posts: 762
Joined: 07 Jul 2007, 22:19
Location: Planet Zog

Hovercraft

Post by Puerto bella » 13 Jul 2007, 18:05

Saw the Hovercraft in action today and it was very exciting and quite an impressive sight. I do hope it takes off.
Balancing all the factors, if another mode of transport can take vehicles off the road then its got to be a good thing. Shame it was fully of dignatories and local people didn't get a chance to go on it for free today.

rapunzell
Posts: 1173
Joined: 30 Sep 2005, 12:58
Location: by the prom
Contact:

Post by rapunzell » 13 Jul 2007, 18:19

It looked amazing on TV just now. It has potential, maybe even as a tourist attraction.

User avatar
Porty
Posts: 8514
Joined: 08 Jun 2004, 14:30
Location: Organic Market

Re: Hovercraft

Post by Porty » 15 Jul 2007, 00:03

Puerto bella wrote:Saw the Hovercraft in action today and it was very exciting and quite an impressive sight. I do hope it takes off.
.
Health and safety may have something to say about that. Not to mention the delay caused by the the shuttle buses having to make their way out to the Airport from Marine Garage. Why are you so against this idea?

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 23 Jul 2007, 20:48

Latest Stagecoach press release:

16,000 passengers catch Forthfast hovercraft in first week of trial

23/07/2007
  • Commuter volumes more than double as priority booking service takes off
    Busy second week expected with closure of Forth Bridge to rail services
    Advance bookings now being accepted for all journeys on final day of trial
    Future potential of cross-Forth public transport link "extremely positive"
More than 16,000 passengers used Stagecoach's popular cross-Forth hovercraft in the first week of the trial operation, according to figures released today (23 July 2007).

The number of commuters using the Forthfast service has also doubled following the introduction of a special priority booking hotline and numbers are expected to rise with the start of the closure of the Forth Bridge to rail services.

Stagecoach reported today that 16,116 passengers travelled on the Kirkcaldy to Portobello hovercraft link between Monday 16 July and Saturday 21 July on a total of 148 trips.

Most trips on the 130-passenger hovercraft have been full and the craft has made the crossing in an average of less than 18 minutes – two minutes faster than its scheduled journey time.

Advance commuter bookings this week have been strong and more than 100 journeys were booked in the first two hours of the 0797 689 1529 commuter priority hotline being open today.

Stagecoach also announced today that advance bookings are now being accepted on the hotline for all journeys on the final day of the trial, Saturday 28 July, to manage the expected rush to experience the hovercraft.

Robert Andrew, Regional Managing Director of Stagecoach Scotland, said: "We have been absolutely delighted with the popularity of Forthfast in the first week of the trial and we are expecting another busy week with the closure of the Forth Bridge to rail services.

"Our new priority booking hotline for commuters has been working well and the number of people using the hovercraft to get to work, which is a key market for the service, has more than doubled from the first week of operation.

"We have also been very impressed with the performance of the craft and the early signs about the future potential of a cross-Forth public transport link have been extremely positive."

Passengers using the first two services of the day from both Kirkcaldy and Portobello and making their return journey from 3.30pm or later will be able to pre-book seats by calling 0797 689 1529. Bookings can be made for day return trips or weekly travel.

The priority booking line will operate Monday to Friday from 9am to 4pm. To ensure the system operates fairly and effectively, any passengers that book a week’s travel in advance and fail to turn up for a journey will invalidate their bookings for the remainder of the week.

Stagecoach is undertaking a £300,000 two-week trial, part-funded by SEStran (the South East of Scotland Transport Partnership). It runs until Saturday 28 July – excluding Sunday 22 July - offering a fast 20-minute crossing time using a 28-metre BHT130 hovercraft, incorporating the latest diesel engine technology .

A total of 22 services a day – 11 in each direction - operate on the route, with convenient peak-time services and integrated bus links to accommodate commuters looking to avoid congestion on the Forth Road Bridge.

Stagecoach estimates that running a two-craft operation would cost around £2million a year. Around 9,000 passengers a week - and up to 470,000 passengers a year – are estimated would use the service. While the service would require initial public investment, Stagecoach believes that within a few years passenger volumes could grow to make it commercially sustainable.

ENDS

User avatar
Sandra
Posts: 3376
Joined: 17 Nov 2003, 16:50
Location: Portobello

Post by Sandra » 25 Jul 2007, 09:41

I saw the hovercraft for first time in action today :D (still wouldn't go on it)

User avatar
Porty
Posts: 8514
Joined: 08 Jun 2004, 14:30
Location: Organic Market

Post by Porty » 25 Jul 2007, 09:56

Sandra wrote:I saw the hovercraft for first time in action today :D (still wouldn't go on it)
That makes 2 of us.

User avatar
Puerto bella
Posts: 762
Joined: 07 Jul 2007, 22:19
Location: Planet Zog

Post by Puerto bella » 26 Jul 2007, 19:09

Missed Reporting Scotland story on the Hovercraft, saw the last two secs of it. Anybody see it - what's the latest?

foxy
Posts: 2055
Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 09:04
Location: wherever I lay my hat

Post by foxy » 26 Jul 2007, 19:15

Puerto bella wrote:Missed Reporting Scotland story on the Hovercraft, saw the last two secs of it. Anybody see it - what's the latest?
....25,000 crossings to date, lots of data gathered, fully booked on Saturday which is the last day of the trial

User avatar
Puerto bella
Posts: 762
Joined: 07 Jul 2007, 22:19
Location: Planet Zog

Post by Puerto bella » 26 Jul 2007, 19:19

That's a lot of people. Wonder how many stopped and spend some dosh in Porty?

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 26 Jul 2007, 19:28

As some of us have suspected for some time, today's article in the EN makes it pretty clear that any service is likely to run from Granton rather than Portobello, and it seems more likely that it will be a ferry of some sort rather than a hovercraft. All of which kind of makes PMAG's opposition to it somewhat redundant, though no doubt they will still claim the credit for this 'victory'.

So why a hovercraft and why Portobello? Why raise our hopes when there was clearly no intention of it happening here? I can only assume that it was a matter of convenience. It was simply the easiest, cheapest option. A novelty ride down by the funfair.

Hover set to stay after trial hailed

Do you think EN sub-editors actually read these articles before they decide on the headline? I'm beginning to wonder.

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 26 Jul 2007, 19:53

From Fife Today, and of particular interest to rapunzell I would imagine:

Hovercraft crossing must be available to all passengers

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 26 Jul 2007, 19:58

Also from Fife Today:
Retail boost from hovercraft

KIRKCALDY retailers are feeling a financial boost as thousands of travellers using the Forth crossing hovercraft spend cash in the town.

Large increases in customer numbers and higher than usual takings have been reported by shops and eateries across the town.

A spokesman for BBs Coffee and Muffins, in the Mercat, said: "It has definitely been good for us. There have been a lot of customers who tell us they have been on the hovercraft, coming from the other side of the water.

"It's great for business. Get another three of them I say."

Shops and businesses along the Prom have also reported an increase in shoppers, attributing this to the hovercraft crossing as well as the school summer holidays.

A spokesman for Dunelm Mill said a positive difference in trade had been noted.

Visitor attractions throughout Kirkcaldy have also been affected by incoming passengers who entertain themselves before returning to the capital.

Town centre manager Sunil Varu said: "We've had about 16,000 people coming back and forward in the space of a week and they spend at least an hour, if not more, in the town.

"They've been going up to the museum and around the shops, which can only be good for the town. Some of these people have had no reason to come across to Kirkcaldy before. I think television and radio coverage of the hovercraft crossing is also good for Kirkcaldy."

Retailers did express concern that perhaps not all visitors realised how close the town centre was to the Seafield hovercraft arrival point.

It was hoped that if the craft became permanent, such information would be advertised.

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 26 Jul 2007, 20:29

This letter was published recently in the EN:

Hovercraft might just miss the boat

And the response today:

Point of hover trial is to find problems

rapunzell
Posts: 1173
Joined: 30 Sep 2005, 12:58
Location: by the prom
Contact:

Post by rapunzell » 27 Jul 2007, 15:32

Well, I headed out for a test run on the hovercraft this morning! Fab
:D :D

I've been trying to keep track of all the debated elements (including the dodgy ones) and I think that if the feedback and advice is taken on board (sorry) and the vital range of changes made (including the politics if nec), the hovercraft service could work well. I might have missed a calculation or two in this, in which case I'll happily rethink, but it should be feasible.

The access is crucial; their intentions are good and the lads are extremely helpful, but like I tried to explain before, because they started the trial and *then* tested a few methods in the background, they'll have to have *another* trial before the speed and safety of anything more than the odd persistent wheelie can be established :roll: This hovercraft normally uses a lift and here they use a step machine, but those are time and labour intensive, so for smooth speedy commuting only a ramp would allow the numbers on without delays and the extra manpower and interior parking.

I should add that I have no idea what the buses, depot, reboarding or the lothian drivers and staff are like though, as I bypassed that part and drove along the prom with Porty's all-Fife beach staff and on with Isle of Wight crew, stayed onboard in Kdy, and returned immediately. Great lads!

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 27 Jul 2007, 19:08

The hovercraft was the subject under discussion on the Talk 107 Breakfast show this morning.

Here, for the record, is my own contribution:

Hovercraft on Talk 107

Thanks to Cassie Grant for supplying the audio clip.

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 31 Jul 2007, 18:02

Extract from an article in today's EN concerning the introduction of the trams:

'There'll be pain before we see gain from trams'
With such radical projects, it is only the unwillingness of some to accept change that often holds us back. The ambitious plan to operate a hovercraft service between Portobello and Fife is another classic example.

While it had novelty value during the recent two week trial, there was little dissent. But now that operators Stagecoach are more bullish about running a permanent service, there are already signs of Nimbysm creeping in, with suggestions a terminal on Portobello seafront is unwelcome.

This from a resort which has been desperately crying out for reinvestment on its shoreline as it seeks to re-establish itself as a leisure destination. With an estimated 470,000 a year passengers using the service, it is perhaps time that it re-examined its priorities.

User avatar
kings roader
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 May 2005, 18:04

Post by kings roader » 01 Aug 2007, 14:50

The above quote is spot on

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 02 Aug 2007, 21:28

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted:

Image

Image

photos by Kenny Fairley
Last edited by Bob Jefferson on 11 Aug 2007, 09:32, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
kings roader
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 May 2005, 18:04

Post by kings roader » 03 Aug 2007, 15:41

Is it definately not going to happen in Porty ??

User avatar
SoupDragon
Posts: 2201
Joined: 03 Oct 2006, 11:02

Post by SoupDragon » 03 Aug 2007, 16:16

How did yopu find the noise at your end of Porty Kings roader?

We could sometimes hear it coming in depending on which way the wind was blowing, bit like a plane going over

User avatar
Poppy
Posts: 3483
Joined: 08 Feb 2004, 12:02

Post by Poppy » 03 Aug 2007, 16:57

Could hear it Pittville Street too, but it was quite a "soft" noise.

User avatar
Sandra
Posts: 3376
Joined: 17 Nov 2003, 16:50
Location: Portobello

Post by Sandra » 04 Aug 2007, 19:43

I showed my dad the hovercraft post and pics last night - he thought it looked braw and is determined to come back and go for a trip when the hovercraft comes back permanently. Hopefully in Portobello. :D

tom nimmo
Posts: 146
Joined: 13 Jan 2004, 15:13
Location: Duddingston
Contact:

Post by tom nimmo » 05 Aug 2007, 13:03

I had a trip on the hovercraft but had to get the bus back from Fife as I did not want to wait for two hours in Kirkcaldy. If the hovercraft or some other sea-going form of transport is eventually established I doubt if it will be from Portobello. Ocean Terminal is, in my opinion, the ideal option as it has direct links to already established bus routes into town. To accommodate the hovercraft permanently we would lose a huge part of the prom from Kings Road westwards as the service would be every half hour. It will be impractical to provide this route with just the one hovercraft in case of breakdown and is it really sensible to have foot passengers disembarking into a busy bus garage car park and then onwards to Seafield Road. It was great to have the novelty of the hovercraft in Portobello but it will be established as a commuter route rather than a tourist route so it really has to go to a more accessible venue.
Prom cycling for all.

User avatar
wangi
[admin]
Posts: 3442
Joined: 27 May 2004, 10:37
Contact:

Post by wangi » 05 Aug 2007, 13:07

Tom, the problem with Ocean Terminal is that it's behind the locks of Leith Docks. It'll be impossible to get the required turn around times if you include the time to enter and exit the dock via the locks. That's the primary issue I guess that forces Newhaven, Granton and Portobello into the picture.

L/

User avatar
Epykat
Posts: 3915
Joined: 04 Dec 2003, 22:35
Location: Portobello, Edinburgh
Contact:

Post by Epykat » 05 Aug 2007, 21:44

tom nimmo wrote: To accommodate the hovercraft permanently we would lose a huge part of the prom from Kings Road.
It was bad enough in the two weeks it was here. My daughter walks to work in the D&C Home via the Prom and for the whole time the hovercraft was here they shut off both the Promenade and the Beach from the point of boarding forcing her (and other pedestrians/dog walkers) to walk along the top road.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

User avatar
Bob Jefferson
Posts: 6212
Joined: 11 Dec 2004, 21:16
Location: Planet Porty
Contact:

Post by Bob Jefferson » 05 Aug 2007, 21:46

That was, I agree, completely out of order and I don't believe they had any right to do so.

User avatar
Epykat
Posts: 3915
Joined: 04 Dec 2003, 22:35
Location: Portobello, Edinburgh
Contact:

Post by Epykat » 05 Aug 2007, 21:48

Bob Jefferson wrote:That was, I agree,
:shock: :shock:

You feeling okay?? :wink:
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

Post Reply