New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Porty]

Beautifully put lg1726 . Me and my family lived a similar portobello existence to yours albeit for 40 plus years. Your opinion and right to express that opinion is equally valid. Furthermore, if a council tax payer living in Saughton with no Porty connection, wants to have a say about how his money's being spent, then that's also valid.

I'm afraid Mark Dickson and Sheila Coventry, let themselves and PPAG down. Bet they are the sort to complain if someone parks on "their" space on a public highway.

[Pal of Porty]

Do not get fooled by PPAG trying to throw in yet another irrelevant sidetrack - they are devoid of facts and rational arguments when it comes to the key issues and have no other option than to re-focus the debate on unrelated aspects.

[Chas]

Why on earth are we even discussing who's lived here for how many years? My family might be the longest serving in Portobello - we've been here since at least 1823 - and I'm not about to disregard anyones opinion just cos they've been here for less time! This is about building a school for the benefit of those who are here NOW AND IN THE FUTURE!

[rmolehusband]

... The majority of parents who want the school to be built on the park do not originate from Portobello, have no connection with the park or the golf course and don’t care or understand the importance of preserving our beautiful park and golf course.

That's a coincidence, the name rang a bell and it turns out the 'idiot' to whom I was referring when I wrote a day or two ago

Months back there was some idiot on the PPAG facebook page challenging Seannie's right to be involved as he apparently hadn't lived in the area for long enough.

was also called Mark Dickson. Wonder if it's the same person? Who's next, can we expect the return of Keiron 'toodrunk69' Sylvester's razor sharp wit too?

If it is the same person, I understand him to be the owner of a high street business. I wonder if he is happy to have us incomers patronising his business or if he only welcomes true-blood sons and daughters of Porty? Now I am not under any circumstances proposing any sport of boycott or similar, I'm just speculating on whether he, given his rather derogatory remarks about us Porty mudbloods above, would still be happy to have us spend our money in his shop. Just speculating, that's all.

[Bob Jefferson]

Incomers of Portobello unite! You have nothing to lose but your xenophobic neighbours. Seriously, there are some very ugly undertones to this 'incomer' stuff. And it's not confined to the internet.

[Bob Jefferson]

Is everyone scared of him?

Why, didn't you know? He has terrible tusks, and terrible claws, and terrible teeth in his terrible jaws. He's the Bobalo!

[Porty]

Don't think Mark Dickson runs the Blue Bean any longer, leases it out. I'm genuinely surprised and disappointed by his stance on this. I didn't have hin down as dolium volvitur.

[Bob Jefferson]

Can't recall whether Blue Bean have one of our posters or not. Reds certainly do and are very pro-school. And Alvaro at Malvarosa signed the petition. Scranary have a poster. Most of the locally-owned shops in fact.

[rmolehusband]

there are some very ugly undertones

Damian O'Neill?

[lg1726]

Ah now if all the incomers united, we would make up a fair chunk of this community. I have to say that i for one am very saddened by all this issue of incomers. We chose to move her as we thought it to be a welcoming and inclusive place to live. We are not a "traditional" family and felt that this would not be an issue and our son then starting PHS in S1 would not have the same difficulties he might have faced elsewhere and i feel so sorry that this sort of attitude may serve to erode this positive vibe.

On the subject of the Blue Bean we have been boycotting it since we were subject to the full on views of the current incumbent on migrant and immigrants and we left to collect our youngest, mixed race son and have not been back since!

[Porty]

On the subject of the Blue Bean we have been boycotting it since we were subject to the full on views of the current incumbent on migrant and immigrants and we left to collect our youngest, mixed race son and have not been back since!

A word of advice- stay out of Izzy's!

[lg1726]

Never been in and never will now - thanks Porty!

[rmolehusband]

I have to say that i for one am very saddened by all this issue of incomers. We chose to move her as we thought it to be a welcoming and inclusive place to live.

It is a welcoming and inclusive place to live and I honestly believe this incomer nonsense is a minor 'blip' caused by a few people who's feelings are running high over the school issue, then magnified by the banter on here - banter for which I am part responsible, so sorry. We've lived in Porty a few years now and find it to be a wonderful, friendly community. Every community has their eedjits, and the school issue is throwing a few of ours into sharp relief as well as temporarily turning a few otherwise sane people into eedjits, but I don't think there is any sort of real problem.

On the subject of the Blue Bean we have been boycotting it since we were subject to the full on views of the current incumbent on migrant and immigrants and we left to collect our youngest, mixed race son and have not been back since!

Now that, on the other hand, is outrageous and a bit more sinister. I tended not to go there because the service is slow and the food not great, but maybe I have a real reason to avoid now.

[Porty]

Never been in and never will now - thanks Porty!

Don't get me wrong. I'm a frequent customer and there is a distinctly "earthy" tone, not earthy as in an embracer of the organic. More like tram worker earthy. the last time i was in one of her relly's had been burgled by a romanian- do i need to paint a more detailed picture!!

[lg1726]

I kind of like the "earthy" feel to Porty and as a relative newcomer, (12 years) am still refreshed by all for the most part! Like i said, as a more "alternative" member of the community i have always been made welcome and i do hope that rmolehusband that you are right and all this will settle with the dust. I do hope so as it is a great place to live and to bring up kids, with a better high school of course!

[seanie]

Why I'm letting my membership of the Green Party lapse.

Now we’re at the thorny question of Portobello High School. Burgess thinks the split in the community there over the building of a desperately needed new school on valuable green space has been the fault of the administration.

“We just don’t think we should have got to the point where a new school has left a community so divided,” he says. “The council did that. We don’t believe there wasn’t an alternative site for the school than the park.

“But parents were forced into supporting building on the park because it was the only way they would get a new school. And the council promised there would be green space to compensate elsewhere, but they’ve reneged on that so no wonder there are some people up in arms about the park disappearing. The better thing would have been to find a site that didn’t involve the park.”

He adds: “Possibly it’s both councillors’ and officials’ fault, but ultimately it stops at the politicians. Councillors are paid to take responsibility. A Green administration would have said, “no, go away and find an alternative” . You can’t keep on getting rid of such assets.

“Edinburgh is a special city and you have to protect what’s special, and green space is one of those things.”

[Bob Jefferson]

For me, the school on the park issue is a bit of a litmus test for the Greens. I would love to be able to vote for them but their thinking lacks maturity on this showing. As I've said before, saving green space is a noble aspiration but it should not be an end in itself. Sometimes, as on this occasion, there are overwhelming reasons to justify the sacrifice for the greater good of the community. You can't just say 'no, go away and find an alternative' when no viable alternative exists. Then again, it's easy to make such gestures when you are never going to be in a position to actually have to make the tough decisions.

Have a word with him Peter or it will cost you votes. No-one here is going to buy this line of it all being the Council's fault. The community is united against a small group of people who are thwarting the will of the majority and making a mockery of democracy.

[Sceptic]

This whole matter is getting nasty and personal. Both sides accusing each other of underhand tactics and personal attacks. As I have said, PPAG have the right to dispute matters in the courts. Should the Council pursue PPAG in the courts for their costs? Should other groups do likewise?
Whatever the outcome, the Portobello Community Council has shown itself not fit for purpose. Their stance of "neutrality" only led to the current civil war existing between the parties. When leadership was needed, they stayed below the parapet.
All they have done is make Portobello a laughing stock.

[seanie]

Oh it's not that bad.

[Puerto bella]

I would like to see a different approach being taken to what we know as the community council. Some different form of citizens panel is clearly needed here to shake things up - a regular rotation of duties, a cross section of ages/ backgrounds/ involvement in order to involve many rather than the few - a wider representation. A commitment to eradicate the bind of 3 hour long meetings, long minutes, bulky agendas and the like. A complete re-think as clearly what is best for Portobello cannot be decided any longer by the current approach. Why could there not be a rotation of panels - a much larger group from all sectors of Portobello divided into smaller panels with limits as to the number of things you can serve on so that things are kept fresh. A presumption in favour of making things happen instead of saying no. Working with the council rather than against them - a new start - or am I living on another planet?

[Puerto bella]

....and I forgot to add - a fully interacitve web site and a citizens panel app, tweets for updates, facebook etc - why has it not embraced social media - more people would get involved if it were less cumbersome.

[Makaveli]

Your right PB - we would love to get more involved but having young kids and jobs leaves little spare time for us to give.

I know plenty other folk in the same boat as us who have no time to get involved but have just as relevant opinion as those with plenty time of their hands.

[Mark Cameron]

Totally agree PB. There's a Facebook page - portobello high street - where the kind of ideas you mention are being talked about and a meeting being planned for next week to explore initial ideas. We need to be a community who work together to embrace the changes that will make this a better place to live, grow up, visit and earn a living rather being seen as a change averse bunch of NIMBYs.

[Puerto bella]

Thanks Mak and McDB - I'm not loopy then.
Its me - I started the Fb page Portobello High St - you've obviously not made the link. I thought most folk on here knew who I was in real life lol.

[Mark Cameron]

Nope - but I do now

Makaveli - I know what you mean about finding time and that's why I've said on TP a number of times that I take my hat off to those who give up their time and serve on the CC. Perhaps something good will come out of next weeks meeting and we can find a way for engaging a significant majority in a positive way that will enable good things to happen without all the 'red tape'.

[seanie]

I certainly think there needs to be a long hard look at just how we're represented as a community, in particular the role the Community Council should play in that, but also what other mechanisms might be available. But it might need the dust to settle on this issue a bit to get some perspective.

[Puerto bella]

I dont think its going to settle, the ball is rolling and it cant be stopped. People are upset and that wont settle easily.

[seanie]

"A riot is an ugly sink. Unt, vonce you get vone schtarted, zere is little chance of schtoppink it, short of blootshet."

[seanie]

Thought it might be useful to share the advice from CoEC Legal Sevices about the special PCC meeting;

The petitioners are seeking:
 
1) a debate on the inclusion by Portobello Park Action Group Association (PPAG) of alleged factual misrepresentations in public fund-raising and other material;

2) that the CC requests the withdrawal of certain material from a group member’s website; and

3) that the CC requests that PPAG withdraws its appeal in the matter of the judicial review.

With regard to parts 2 and 3, the PCC cannot enforce the removal or deletion of any material from third-party websites or the withdrawal by PPAG of the appeal. However, the PCC may request the removal or deletion of material from third-party websites or request the withdrawal by PPAG of the appeal. It is up to the PCC to decide if it is appropriate to make any such request/s.

In relation to Part 1, requesting a debate on the matter, in line with the PCC's purpose, you would be allowing parties to express their views which could then be passed to CEC.

The key issue is to ensure people are given their 'voice'. Section 51(2) of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973 Act provides that it is PCC's duty to "ascertain, co-ordinate and express to the local authorities... the views of the community which it represents". The Constitution further provides that the CC "shall be a means whereby the people of the area shall be able to voice their opinions on any matter affecting their lives, their welfare, their environment, its development and amenity" (Para 3(e)).
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[storky]

Not sure if anyone else has posted the PHS Report that will be discussed at tomorrows full council meeting. In any case here is the link:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/me ... igh_school

I've only had time for a quick scan, but two things stand out:

1. section 3.24 It appears that the council are not going to insist on PPAG to put up a bond prior to the appeal.

2. section 3.50 If the council were to given the 'green light' to the contractor by tomorrow the school could be open by Jan 2014.

I've been pushing for the council to build for the past few weeks, without considering the appeal, given there is no risk. Quite a few responded with the same opinion. It seems now their opinions have shifted slightly.

[seanie]

With a court date being set so soon (getting one in May is pretty astonishing given the pace of things in the Inner House usually) it's very difficult to justify just proceeding because it wouldn't be at no risk, just minimal risk. Exposing themselves to any risk, when the alternative is hopefully no more than a few weeks delay, is hard to square.

[Franck]

Just to return to the latin slant, but keeping on topic, Ope Et Consilio,sing it high and sing it low, sing it wherever you go....do they still sing that dirge?

Oh, and evidence of my Porty credentials can be found in the following line.

YPR ya bas.

[Porty]

I always thunk Bas was spelt Bass!

[storky]

With a court date being set so soon (getting one in May is pretty astonishing given the pace of things in the Inner House usually) it's very difficult to justify just proceeding because it wouldn't be at no risk, just minimal risk. Exposing themselves to any risk, when the alternative is hopefully no more than a few weeks delay, is hard to square.

I think they should proceed immediately. Even if the court decision is quick, PPAG are bound to explore other legal avenues.

What is also very disappointing is the fact that EC have not insisted on the bond being in place prior to the appeal. That may have destroyed PPAG appeal straightaway.

You any idea when the tenders have to been renegotiated? I couldn't see anything in the report.

[Betty Windsor]

A replacement for Castlebrae is an integral part of the longer term regeneration plans that will eventually see the local population, and demand for school places, increase significantly over current levels.

At 1400, the proposed PHS is slightly over-sized for current catchment demand (which is closer to 1200) but the school was keen to keep to around 1400 for the curriculum advantages and over the medium term there's a blip I'n school numbers that will increase in-catchment demand.

Look how Towerbank has increased In size over the last 6 years. That will have to work its way through PHS.

I don't think you need to be a genius to work out that the extra 200 is to accomodate the Castlebrae kids when they close Castlebrae (it costs twice the amount to keep a child at Castlebrae). In this financial climate I believe it is inevitable and is indeed CEC's plan. Before you ask this is based on heresay and common sense - I do not have the person on tape who said or have any written evidence, sorry.
As far as the "curriculum advantages"-what does that mean? The curriculum changes constantly. What are these advantages? If you could keep it brief I'd appreciate it.