St John's School

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 13 Mar 2009, 12:52

Pal of Porty wrote:
One of the things that has always amazed me is why parents are so obsessed with what primary school their kids go to when they live in this area. The choices are essentially, Parsons Green, Royal High, Duddingston, St Johns and Towerbank. All of them good schools, all of them with good kids and although at times one may be a bit better on some issues than the others, over the course of the 7 years it all seems to balance itself out.

Chill and send them to catchment Man.....

Funnily enough PoP, I had written more or less the same thing and then deleted it because I thought my post was long enough. I reckon one of the reasons - aside from the beach! - that Portobello is so popular with families is the fact that all our Primaries, as you point out, have such excellent reputations.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 Mar 2009, 13:21

Marya wrote:Have you ever met a priest Bob?:lol:

I'm not sure that I've ever been introduced to one. I heard the local guy was a bit of a hard-liner but surely the Catholic church must have more liberal types? Don't you have an equivalent to Richard Holloway? He did pretty well within the church establishment without necessarily believing in God per se.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 13 Mar 2009, 15:19

re baptism
Its usually requested that the parents, or a least one parent attends Mass regularly, especially if the parents aren't married or not married in the RC church, or one isn't RC
Unless its an emergency baptism, ie child is ill in hospital when a priest will come from the nearest parish church, no hesitation.

We seem to have a lot of family type housing in Portobello which is part of the reasom our schools have full rolls. Towerbank and St Johns have been full to bursting point for years.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 13 Mar 2009, 16:08

Is st Johns full to bursting point? I continually hear that parents have been removing their children and sending them to other local primaries. This despite the glowing hmie report. What is the curent school role?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 13 Mar 2009, 16:20

Porty wrote: What is the curent school role?

433 according to the inspection report.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 13 Mar 2009, 17:17

Is that full and nursery included?

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 13 Mar 2009, 17:24

Its said to include the Nursery of 62 pupils
So that means 371 pupils in P1 to P7
Whats the current class size at St Johns?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 13 Mar 2009, 18:25

SoupDragon wrote:Its said to include the Nursery of 62 pupils
So that means 371 pupils in P1 to P7
Whats the current class size at St Johns?

Dunno. Seanie says a P1 max size is 25, so if we assume the two p1 classes account for 50, that leaves an average 26-27 pupils in other classes.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 13 Mar 2009, 18:46

Figures from last September are;

P1 48
P2 55
P3 50
P4 55
P5 58
P6 56
P7 50

So that looks like a straight two stream all the way through. Officially they're at about 90% capacity but the Council figures on capacities seem a bit suspect. The expected three forms of entry in August could cause problems.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 13 Mar 2009, 19:01

Out of curiosity what are the figures for Towerbank Seanie?

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 13 Mar 2009, 19:12

P1 73
P2 68
P3 72
P4 55
P5 63
P6 59
P7 60

The provisional intake for August is over 90. That may drop but we're looking at more than three P1s. Officially however we're only at 80% capacity, although that figure hasn't been recalculated since 2003. I'd treat the Council's capacities with caution.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 14 Mar 2009, 09:18

Seems both schools are busy. Assuming 30 per class SJ loooks to have 21 available spaces out of 240 in P4-P7 and it appears that the "leave for private school in P7" effect is stilll happening at S Johns. (we were guilty of that with one of ours). TB has just 1 available space using the same assumption. Of course its not a competition both schools are very busy. With the projected intakes TB looks to have more of an issue but St Johns is probably short of a classroom to accomodate a 3 form intake.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 14 Mar 2009, 09:57

Numbers don't really convey the problem. It's also complicated by the physical limitations; there's a minimum area per pupil for a class so some rooms might accomodate a P1 or composite (@25) but not a P4-7. Then there's the organisational difficulties of where classes are located, and whether General Purpose spaces have to be sacraficed. Towerbank's already lost GP spaces to the increased roll but they're really important.

On the plus side the Towerbank extension got full funding so the problems will be eased within the next couple of years. But the rise in rolls was not predicted by the catchment forecasts so who knows if the extension will be sufficient?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 14 Mar 2009, 11:21

Porty wrote: it appears that the "leave for private school in P7" effect is stilll happening at S Johns.

Yes, still happens, though often at the end of p5.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 14 Mar 2009, 11:28

Porty wrote:Seems both schools are busy. Assuming 30 per class SJ loooks to have 21 available spaces out of 240 in P4-P7 and it appears that the "leave for private school in P7" effect is stilll happening at S Johns. (we were guilty of that with one of ours). TB has just 1 available space using the same assumption.

Are you sure?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 14 Mar 2009, 12:20

Oops its 3 - it was early in the morning! Spot on Seanie it is not just about numbers. Soupdragon may recall better thxn me but I think the role was over 400 in the early 90s but that was before the 25 Max rule for the early years.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 14 Mar 2009, 12:37

The school roll was over 400 in the 90s
When Clanger 3 started in 1996I'm sure there were 33 pupils in each P1 class.
They were in the huts until the class size fell to 30 then they got moved into the main building, that took a while.
As I remember it was mostly P7 that had the moving to private school "dip"

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 14 Mar 2009, 12:54

I'm sure many school rolls were higher in the early 90s.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 14 Mar 2009, 13:12

SoupDragon wrote: As I remember it was mostly P7 that had the moving to private school "dip"

Schools such as Heriot's ,for example, now encourage pupils to move at the end of p5 as well as at the end of p6.

George Heriot's website wrote:The main entries for session 2009-10 are Primary One, Primary Six, Primary Seven

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 16 Mar 2009, 10:47

Bob Jefferson wrote:Don't you have an equivalent to Richard Holloway? He did pretty well within the church establishment without necessarily believing in God per se.

Richard Holloway is the ex-Bishop of Edinburgh.
And he wasn't that popular with many Episcopalians who thought he was a pretentious Englishman, bent on changing the church to his own preference, regardless of the views of others.
Can you tell I was not a fan??

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 16 Mar 2009, 11:12

Ah, pretentious and English.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 16 Mar 2009, 11:59

Except of course that he's not English; born in Glasgow, to Scottish parents, and brought up in the Vale of Leven.

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 16 Mar 2009, 12:29

seanie wrote:Except of course that he's not English; born in Glasgow, to Scottish parents, and brought up in the Vale of Leven.

mea culpa.
He is ordained in the Anglican Church though and was a minister in England.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 16 Mar 2009, 12:54

So he's associated with an English institution? That's a reason many Scottish Episcopalians aren't keen on him?

What a powerful display of Christian love in action.

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 24 Mar 2009, 15:57

seanie wrote:So he's associated with an English institution? That's a reason many Scottish Episcopalians aren't keen on him?

No - it was that he was generally disrespectful of the traditions of the Episcopalian Church and felt he could sweep them aside, regardless of what many congregations felt.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 24 Mar 2009, 17:32

Is anti-English bigotry part of the Scottish Episcopalian tradition?

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 25 Mar 2009, 10:14

You are the one making allegations of bigotry - I only stated I thought he was a pretentious Englishman. That seems pretty factual to me - neither bigoted or racist and quite frankly I resent your insulting insinuations. Stilll - I'm not going to waste any more time over this as you clearly have a bee in your bonnet.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 25 Mar 2009, 10:34

No. You said "many Episcopalians" thought he was a "pretentious Englishman."

I'm not terribly familiar with the Episcopalian community so I'm only relying on what you've told me. And from what you've told me "many Epicopalians" would appear to be both ignorant and a little bit bigoted.

Bigoted for considering someone's nationality a relevant reason to dislike them, and ignorant for getting the nationality wrong.

I find that a little suprising but I'm just going by what you've told me.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 20 Jun 2009, 07:49

This quote comes from an article in the EN yesterday:

Building on the Capital's educational foundations

David Manson, chair of St John's parent council – which is joint third in line for refurbishment under wave three – said: "It's very difficult for us to start jumping up and down about this. They are going to build 55 schools but the council doesn't see us as a top priority."

I wonder why.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 20 Jun 2009, 11:39

I don't believe many chairs of a parent council when offered a new school on a larger campus. Would beg the council to withdraw the offer and when they refused, go running to the evening news claiming the new school would be like alcatraz! - it may be somethng to do with that.

As for the council, they have somethng like 100 schools and rate st Johns third or fourth, the man is not gracious.

Every time I see him quoted he is denigrates the council. He like PPAG are then astonished they don't get anywhere! .

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 20 Jun 2009, 11:51

Exactly. If you compare the two campaigns, PFANS and the school board have worked WITH the Council from the outset, whereas St John's have always had their own agenda and treated the Council with mistrust. It's down to the mindset of the individuals involved.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 20 Jun 2009, 19:23

I'm fed up with it. I believe St Johns is great institution, it is esteemed, well thought of by everyone I've ever spoken to that has an opinion. The school has endured less than perfect conditions, educationally speaking, for longer than my association, which is around 25 Years and it has done so with dignity and grace.

David Manson the chair of the 2 person parent council is the only spokesperson for the school, employees lips are sealed. He chooses to castigate the council, who have acknowledged that St Johns is in the top 3% of city schools to be replaced, for not prioritising St John's.

We have around 120 school in the city, many are in dire need of replacement, some are closing and you would be hard pushed to find any parent council members who are prepared to go public in such a disgraceful manner.

To me it is like St John's being part of a starving people and complaining
cos' they have only been offered steak pie.

I cannnot accept the good people of the St John's school community are happy to be represented in such a selfish and ignorant way. The council are the hand that feeds St John's, you don't bite that hand. Iv'e never met the guy, I don't want to, it is nothing personal. I just don't like him using the school as a cudgel to further his own political ambition. He shames his school and should sod off and play his political games somehwere else.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 21 Jun 2009, 11:33

Think I need to chill about the schools issue- sorry.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 24 Jun 2009, 22:14

Bob Jefferson wrote:
Marya wrote:Have you ever met a priest Bob?:lol:
I heard the local guy was a bit of a hard-liner but surely the Catholic church must have more liberal types?

Just dropping in for a moment and this caught my eye... Local hard liner ran away - literally - when we asked him to baptise DS2... We went to the cathedral instead where we were warmly welcomed by the lovely Fr David RIP and who was very happy to baptise our child. But the local guy running away is one of our more amusing memories... Not exactly what i would call tending his flock!

Towerbank are to have 3 1/2 P1s in August; with regard to accommodation, Mrs Scates told me she is knitting a new classroom for them. No wonder they're recognised as an eco-friendly school.

BB

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 25 Jun 2009, 08:51

bellybabe wrote:Towerbank are to have 3 1/2 P1s in August

This is a hot topic among the playground parent set so let's take it over to a Towerbank thread to discuss.