Portobello Community Council

[Porty]

I'm extremelly concerned that the integrity of PCC is being undermined by unwillingness to address the flouting of the code of conduct by certain high profile individuals. Anyone else thinking that?

Have done for years.

[Porty]

The last minutes posted on the PCC website are from Nov 2011. Seems that shortly after the launch of the website they stopped posting minutes. They used to give them to to Bob for posting on POL.

Planning: JS emailed round a planning app to part demolish 1 Portobello High Street. Red brick building first on your right. (Circulates plan). Application by Scottish Power for partial demolition. Originally built in 1890 for tram system. Drove the cables that hauled the trams along the track. "We haven't many industrial buildings left from Victorian times" I suggest we object to the partial demolition. Agreement to object. JS: "Objections have to be in by tomorrow. It's easy to do on the planning portal. I'm going to do PCC objection tonight, PAS has objected and Portobello Heritage Society has objected too. "

Was there any desire from the community to object to this planning application? PAS is basically John Stewart in another guise. Do you mean the Portobello History Society were the other objectors?

[Puerto bella]

It could be argued that Scottish Power dont even require consent as a statutory undertaker...
Personally I dont think the CC should involve themselves in minor applications.
Choose your battles and all that.

[lg1726]

Does anyone know what the estimated annual running cost of the golf course are, ball park (boom, boom) is fine?

[wangi]

The last minutes posted on the PCC website are from Nov 2011

No, there are 2012 ones too at http://portobellocc.org/agenda%20&%20minutes.html (black links above the 2010 and 2011 buttons).

[wangi]

Notes from PCC Meeting, Monday, 30 April 2012

Cast list include many of the usual suspects though a select few seem to do most of the talking: John Stewart (JS), Diana Cairns (DC), Stephen Hawkins (SH), Maureen Child (MC),  Ros Sutherland (RS)

 Police report: 39 crimes. mostly vandalism and theft. Housebreaking has dropped due to group being successfully apprehended. Can have a visit from Crime Prevention Officer if you want. Two vehicle accidents with no injury. Highlighting bicycle use. Secure bike to immovable object. Take a photo of bike and keep in a safe place. Take note of unique features, serial numbers, etc.  Five vehicles in Abercorn Terrace, 5th/6th April. No one identified to date. PC Piers working with community officer. Several operations on Anti Social Behaviour, drugs, Can email or phone police office. 

Environmental update: Proposed to reinstate a metal bench to town hall. Lost wooden bench. Msg from James Hunter making a priority of looking after the pumping station. Windsor Place bins. Toilets: Asked city wide team to open toilets all year round. Said they won't. 

Minutes of previous meeting: Anything to be changed? 

Matters arising from minutes: [Didn't get a copy of minutes so couldn't keep track. Lots of reference to 297.3, 297.6, etc]

Annie and Belle's issue is that they are retail so can only have four tables, and would like two more tables but need a new licence class. It's fallen foul of the PCC and Planners, in spite of 700 signatures in support of application. 

Robert Gatliff: Noise from 5-a-side football pitches: Old person wants noise reduced. Parties which go on late, noisy, and a change to surface or balls has increased the noise. Can PCC do anything? Stephen Hawkins: Licensing board covers noisy parties. Suggests contacting licensing officers. Anyone disturbed by noise should phone the Noise Team on 529 3030.


Expenditure: Rent of 60gbp, 50gpb to Hornets, insurance 199.48gbp for public liability, 80GBP for planning around the phone box. Down to 1618.55 GBP left in kitty.

Planning: JS emailed round a planning app to part demolish 1 Portobello High Street. Red brick building first on your right.  (Circulates plan). Application by Scottish Power for partial demolition. Originally built in 1890 for tram system. Drove the cables that hauled the trams along the track. "We haven't many industrial buildings left from Victorian times" I suggest we object to the partial demolition. Agreement to object.  JS: "Objections have to be in by tomorrow. It's easy to do on the planning portal. I'm going to do PCC objection tonight, PAS has objected and Portobello Heritage Society has objected too. "

Changes to paths to Fort. Developer wants to meet PCC.  No one able to remember PCC's list of objections. Diana Cairns to meet him. 

Signage: Joppa Tennis Courts wants a sign to point people to courts. 

Councillors report: Stephen Hawkins has circulated an end of term report.  JS wants to minute thanks to SH.  Maureen Child added thanks to Stephen Hawkins. 

AOCB:-


Good citizenship award: CEC recognises a member of public. Asked that PCC nominate Jonathan Bendit. Nominations have to be in by Friday. DC wants to know if PCC can nominate more than one person. SH says something Darling award needs to incorporate an element of promotion for the city.  [Various other people mentioned] CEC councillors will get to vote on a private agenda where no one knows who voted for whom. Eric Liddle seems to be more popular choice for nomination.

Golf course: Ros Sutherland:  "It's a shame that councillor Bridgman isn't still here because of what he said at the meeting last week about the golf course and its future. Clearly there was a strength of feeling about the golf course both as a facility and a part of the culture of portobello. Edinburgh Leisure have twice in the past suggested that the golf course be cut to meet their budget reductions. Is there something the PCC can do to write to Edinburgh Leisure re the strength of feeling in the community about retaining the golf course". Maureen Child: "Might be better to say that, if CEC needs to drop golf course, the community would take it on and keep it going". SH: "Dedicating the golf course one of the Queen's jubilee fields. Maybe a dedication from the PCC would help". JS: "Is there a model for a community taking on a golf course". RS: "I would be happy to look into that". Sheila Gilmore: I woud hope Edinburgh Leisure don't want to close it. In Craigmillar they've set up a community development trust which will acquire assets and develop them. Just visited one in Shoreditch. Interesting model to have community control and run it as a business enterprise. " Lawrence: "We should be careful about allowing council/Edinburgh Leisure to back away. I don't think we should let the council off the hook. I wouldn't mention it at all in a letter to the council. It's been deeply unfortunate that the issue came up in relation to the high school. " Pamela Moffat: " I spoke to family at the weekend who thought housing was going to be built on the golf course. How would they have come to that conclusion? " JS titters. No one says anything.  Lee Kindness: "The golf course is common good land so for housing to be built but I fully understand where people would have got that idea from."  Sheila Gilmore: "I think SH's suggestion is a good one. " MC: "Letter should back up SH's suggestion that the golf course should be a jubilee park".  JS: "Diana you happy to do that?"


Speakers: Steve Adjukey? coming to talk to us. June or August meetings? JS: "I'll give him those dates"

Scottish Water/ Wind Turbine: PEDAL's plans have hit the buffers. Sean Watters: "American PPP financiers are insisting on a bond (money up front) for the maximum amount of damage. " SH: "We've had a huge amount of support from the community. Money is in place to take it to planning. As a community group we've negotiated with Scottish Water openly but they've not been totally open. " Eva Shoenfold: "moving it closer to Leith may threaten the Terns. The site we've got is best, it's not necessarily going to be possible. " JS: "Sheila can you email DC a copy of letter you sent. Sorry, Nick can you do that ?"

Flood prevention work: Isn't there a problem with the flood prevention work at the Figgate Burn?

And the elephant in the room was...

[Porty]

The last minutes posted on the PCC website are from Nov 2011

No, there are 2012 ones too at http://portobellocc.org/agenda%20&%20minutes.html (black links above the 2010 and 2011 buttons).

My bad..apologies.

[Pal of Porty]

Several days after the first ever special meeting in the history of the PCC and it is not even mentioned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Porty]

Personally I dont think the CC should involve themselves in minor applications.
Choose your battles and all that.

The guidlines, to which a link is published above, agree with you:

Pan 47 advises community councils as follows when considering whether to ask to be formerly considered...

“Community councils are advised to limit their attention to proposals which raise issues of genuine community interest; householder application will rarely involve issues of this kind”

Was there "genuine community interest" in Anne and Belles or in the Scottish Power building and countless householder applications? I think not.

[Makaveli]

The way that the PCC (certain members anyway) pick and chose what planning applications they comment on and what the comment is seem down to one thing and one thing only - personal choice!!!

I don't know how they sleep at night messing around with people like that.

[seashell]

that's a bit like asking 'was there genuine community interest shown in the emergency meeting of the PCC last week', isn't it?
In it's present guise and certainly as chaired, the PCC's function appears to be to advance the minority views of certain individuals and give undue prominence to minority groups, at the expense of the clearly expressed views of the majority of the community.

[seashell]

The way that the PCC (certain members anyway) pick and chose what planning applications they comment on and what the comment is seem down to one thing and one thing only - personal choice!!!

I don't know how they sleep at night messing around with people like that.

Well, we all know how forgetful SH is... so maybe that is the secret - selective amnesia?

[Porty]

In it's present guise and certainly as chaired, the PCC's function appears to be to advance the minority views of certain individuals and give undue prominence to minority groups, at the expense of the clearly expressed views of the majority of the community.

I'm beginning to get annoyed at EC. They have been fending off complaints about PCC for at least 4 years. The stock response is to refer it back to the chair. As I've said before; that's akin to having Yogi Bear investigate the theft of some picnic baskets. Our CC appears not to have read either the code of conduct or guidelines and EC seem quite content to let them get away with it.

[Mark Cameron]

If the PCC receive a request for details of the number of contacts since the special meeting either making a complaint or expressing concern, asking for the chair to step down or asking for other PCC members to step aside do you think as a body representing the community they'd have to disclose this information?

Guess we'll find out soon.

[lg1726]

Freedom of information would cover such a request. if they did not disclose, they would have to provide evidence to support that decision and it could be challenged. It's my guess they would co-operate with an FOI request, more hassle for them not to!

[Porty]

surely a simple request from a cc would extract copies of all correspondence?

[BeachBum]

Freedom of information would cover such a request. if they did not disclose, they would have to provide evidence to support that decision and it could be challenged. It's my guess they would co-operate with an FOI request, more hassle for them not to!

Information held by Portobello Community Council is not covered by the provisions of FOISA.

They could ofcourse choose to voluntarily comply with the requirements of FOISA, which could allow for the disclosure of the information if its held and no exemptions are applied, but if they chose not to and if they decided not to release any information there would be no recourse to the Scottish Information Commissioner.

[Porty]

I suspect most correspondents will have copied the council in.

When are the minutes due, could make for some interesting reading. What will the council make of a document that contains a vote where 98% wish a request to drop the appeal and the CC intimate they have to be neutral. PCC should hire Ronald McDonald to go along and read the minutes out loud to the full council. would lend a bit gravitas.

[Pal of Porty]

This has all been about the school and nothing should detract from getting the new Porty High built on the Park. One of the side issues however has been to throw some light on how the PCC operates and in my view there really is no great mystery.

It is controlled by a handful of people that have formed an 'Inner Sanctum' that manipulates the way that all decisions are made and reported. In their own minds, they may well believe that they have the interests of Portobello at heart but world history is littered with many dictatorial regimes that thought their way was the correct way too and we know how many of those ended up!

Split the inner sanctum and voices more representative of Portobello can be heard again. Simples

[lg1726]

Whilst pcc might not be covered, CEC are and it could be possible to find out how many contacts/complaints they have had about the PCC since the emergency meeting. I cc'd them into my letter and i know a lot of others did and that could provide an indication of the level of discontent.

[Mark Cameron]

Sean which ones are happy to have their email addresses in the public domain? We can work out who the others are by our sleuth like abilities. Surely it's in the interest of public consultation to be as open and attainable as possible.

[seanie]

Not sure to be honest. I seem to recall a suggestion that those happy to have contact details publicised could maybe have that info added to the PCC web-site, but nothing ever came of it.

When the PCC e-mail distribution list was accidentally leaked it did cause a bit of a kerfuffle.

[Bob Jefferson]

[Porty]

superb Bob.You can expect some personal attacks soon!

[Puerto bella]

Bob: 'Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of blueberries'........

[Puerto bella]

who I wonder: 'puts on women's clothing.....and hangs about in bars?'

[Porty]

Elderberries?

[Pal of Porty]

who I wonder: 'puts on women's clothing.....and hangs about in bars?'

Should that not read bras?

[Puerto bella]

you catch my drift anyhow....

[Doris]

Draft minutes for the emergency PCC meeting available

http://www.portobellocc.org/PCC-2012042 ... eeting.pdf

[geofflynn]

Minutes of the special meeting are now posted on the PCC website http://www.portobellocc.org/agenda%20&%20minutes.html

And I see John Stewart has also posted the following comment :-

Please note that the draft minutes of the PCC Meeting of 30th April 2012 are the official PCC version, an inaccurate version has been posted on a local internet site by a member of the public.

Could this be the same man who declared to a room of 250 that commenting on the content of a local website was not competent business for the PCC? Has he now reversed that decision?

[Porty]

Members of the public are a damned nuisance to John and crew.

[SoupDragon]

Members of the public are a damned nuisance to John and crew.

That's certainly the impression I got after attending a PCC meeting.

I had the feeling that I was intruding into a private club

[Puerto bella]

We are Soupy, we are.

[Mark Cameron]

Is it just me or do these minutes not really put across the strength of feeling that was on show that night?

For example it doesn't indicate the prolonged thunderous applause following each comment in support of PPAG dropping he appeal.

Nor does it mention Stephen Hawkins being shouted down by the entire room after his ludicrous statement.

Will CEC get a true relection from this account?