Woodwares closing / Sainsburys coming to Portobello

[lg1726]

I've added a form to Ask ?orty so anyone can easily make a representation to the Licensing Dept regarding this matter.

Please go here --> http://porty.org.uk/alcohol-licence

Great work Geoff - have you posted your link elsewhere for others to see?

lg

[bearcub]

A friend who has served on a Council licencing committee tells me that the number of licences to sell alcohol in the area isn't something they take into account when deciding whether to approve a new licence or not, which to me sounds like objecting on the grounds of over-provision is a bit of a waste of time.

Thinking about it, telling a shop they can't sell alcohol just because another shop already does might get a council in trouble for restricting their freedom to trade?

[type28]

I can’t wait until Sainsbury’s arrive. The shop will be clean. The products for sale within their sell by date. The shelves with alcohol on them will not be stocked with cheap cider and strong beer and I would wager you will not be able to buy “single” cigarettes at the counter.

[lg1726]

A friend who has served on a Council licencing committee tells me that the number of licences to sell alcohol in the area isn't something they take into account when deciding whether to approve a new licence or not, which to me sounds like objecting on the grounds of over-provision is a bit of a waste of time.

Thinking about it, telling a shop they can't sell alcohol just because another shop already does might get a council in trouble for restricting their freedom to trade?

It's a recent addition to the considerations for the licencing boards, along with public health issues - rates of alcohol related deaths and hospital admissions in the locality are the stats used for this. Porty and in particular Joppa are significantly lower than Edinburgh and Scotland figures for this and so in my letter to the licencing board, I argued that the issue of over-provision was not valid based on the available data. However, we do have higher alcohol related crime figures, but the role of alcohol in the crime is purely a subjective judgement on the part of the arresting officer. In my letter I referred to personal experience of "petty crime" and vandalism and the under-age drinking going on at the times of these and the associated need for responsible off-sales trading.

I might attend the licencing board meeting, just to see how it all happens!!

[Porty]

It is a pity that there's not a licensing policy for "Serial Objectors"- Porty has a significant over provision.

[lg1726]

It is a pity that there's not a licensing policy for "Serial Objectors"- Porty has a significant over provision.

And they are a public health menace as well - they're doing my nut anyway!!!

[fresian]

Why don't they just open a Sauna on the site instead. At least they will only have one objector to deal with!!!

[lg1726]

Why don't they just open a Sauna on the site instead. At least they will only have one objector to deal with!!!

Who would that one objector be pray tell - do tell!?

[seanie]

Revised elevations on the Planning Portal.

[seashell]

It says the document isn't available yet, Sean.
Is there much change to the original?

[seanie]

Try the link again. It worked initially for me but then didn't, so I've re=done it.

Or try the following;

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk ... W5ZEWLO000

[wangi]

Attached, the planning portal isn't a good neighbour when it comes to direct linking docs!

[wangi]

And a crop of the main detail:

[seashell]

thank you.

Looks very nice.

[Sceptic]

How do they describe the main colour? PAVED Gray?

[fresian]

lg wrote Who would that one objector be pray tell - do tell!?

Someone who already has an acronym for Portobello Against Sleazy Saunas

[fresian]

Wangi,

I reckon the orange "Local" on the maroon background is definately not in keeping with the rest of Porty.

[wangi]

It's an officially sanctioned shade of orange I hear - they use on the sign for Porty Baths too

[lg1726]

Sainsbury's alcohol licence granted by a unanimous vote at the board today. Diana Cairns and Stephen Hawkins gave representations objecting to their application and I gave representation in support (unprecedented I was told!).

An earlier case involving Tesco resulted in some considerable debate about the CEC policy on over provision not being sufficiently robust, so that may have helped. DC/SH were on the too many off sales message, but my argument was the issue of looking to get more responsible traders and to support those who could demonstrate and resource development, implementation and monitoring of robust and stringent under age sales policies and this was a significant factor in making this specific case decision!!

Planning application next, I think 05 December! I want an lg1726 check-out and you are welcome to use it!

[wangi]

Thanks for the update LG!

[Porty]

Well done Lg.

Did Stephen and Diana speak individually or just sing their objection song. (Christmas version)

[lg1726]

Well done Lg.

Did Stephen and Diana speak individually or just sing their objection song. (Christmas version)

They spoke individually, but she was prompting him the whole time - I resisted the temptation to check if she had her hand up him in Ray Allen, Lord Charles kind of way (need to be a certain vintage to remember them!).

She did however produce "authority" to speak for a couple of other objectors and did make reference to the PCC, but said she was there speaking only for herself. When I left the room I was followed by a police rep on the board who said that she very much agreed with my position regarding the issue of under age sales, and that she would like to see licences granted not only on the basis of over provision, but also on a clear demonstration of robust policies and associated training around the sale of alcohol to minors!

[Bob Jefferson]

I think it's a really important point and well done to you for making it. I was approached just the other night in Porty High Street by a young person who was clearly nowhere near 18, asking if I would buy alcohol for him.

[Porty]

That's the usual. MO from the duo. What figure did theyy claim for the number of off licences on Porty High St?

The song is actuallyquite good. Sung to the tune of Amy Winehouse "Rehab" it's titled "Permission".

[lg1726]

What figure did theyy claim for the number of off licences on Porty High St?".

She produced a map which she handed out to all in the room (except me!) with 10 off licence points of sale marked on it and drew attention to "cluster" in a de-marked area where the new store will be located.

I told the police rep who spoke to me off the record that I was in one of our local stores (no doubt marked on her map) and the trader was on his phone the whole time I was there, during which time he served two young girls around 15-16 booze without looking up! When I challenged him, still without looking up or interrupting his conversation, he asked me for the price of my goods. I put them down on the counter and left! DC said at the board that the local traders know the teenagers and so will not sell to them, unlike an anonymous supermarket! I rest my case m'lud.

[Makaveli]

Seriously what is their problem? I would like to know why they feel the need to object to everything!!!!

I don't think people realise the lasting damage they are doing to Portobello and I fear it will be too late by the time folk notice!!!

[lg1726]

Seriously what is their problem? I would like to know why they feel the need to object to everything!!!!

I don't think people realise the lasting damage they are doing to Portobello and I fear it will be too late by the time folk notice!!!

I have to say that she seemed a bit put out at my presence, and she had masses of material with her, but merely read from her printed sheet and was not really that compelling (in my opinion). I spoke to someone in the room whom I know and who was a former councillor, he told me that as a consequence of the school stuff, she is seen as a bit of the Antichrist by many elected members. The planning application is up very soon and no doubt she will be there then, I might see if I can make it along then as well, but perhaps she will not find such ready and receptive fora for her persistent objections!

[lg1726]

I think it's a really important point and well done to you for making it. I was approached just the other night in Porty High Street by a young person who was clearly nowhere near 18, asking if I would buy alcohol for him.

The guy from Tesco's said that they train staff not to serve those clearly over 25, if they are in the obvious presence of a teenage minor, just to be on the safe side and not end up involved in what they call sale of liquor to a third party agent to a minor! That to me is robust!

[Porty]

DC.would nott like you being there as it impairs the opportunity for making stuff up and pretending it's true.

I've long wondered why one of Sean's pet expressions is clusterfuck. Think it's just a coincidence.

[seashell]

Many thanks, lg - you put forward a coherent and compelling case.
I have no doubt that DC is just seen as a serial objector, which will not do her "causes" any good at all.
you deserve that dedicated lane - hey - maybe you should be invited to do the official opening!

[wangi]

https://twitter.com/Martin_Veart/status ... 7179966464

“@edinburghpaper: Today's front page twitter.com/edinburghpaper…” Sainsbury's get alcohol license despite local opposition @talkporty #Portobello

[lg1726]

They talk about the hospital admissions for Portobello/Craigmillar, but when you look closely at the ISD stats for NHS Scotland http://www.alcoholinformation.isdscotla ... n_2011.pdf . it's apparent that there is a very distinct difference across this very varied area http://edinburghadp.co.uk/Resources/Loc ... millar.pdf - Niddrie and Craigmillar are well above the Edinburgh and Scotland average for alcohol related hospital admissions and alcohol related deaths, but Portobello and particularly Joppa are well below and this waas the point of the discussion around how they use data in respect of the issue of over-provision to look at applications. They also use a 500m distance and population density as a measure, but if you apply that to its conclusion, then given the stated number of off sales on our High Street, our health stats do not support the over provision argument and that was their challenge in terms of the Tesco application and given that they had granted that one, they had little choice but to follow through with this one! The convenor and the clerk acknowledged that CEC policy on over provision was not sufficiently robust and Dr Sherval stated that NHS Lothian do not have the resources to provide figures down to the level Diana Cairns et al were suggesting! I think I saw a reporter in the room and DC clearly nobbled him - poor bloke!

[fresian]

LG, It was nice to see such a well balanced report, DC gets a mention, including her usual spin, yet no mention of your representation to the committee.

[lg1726]

LG, It was nice to see such a well balanced report, DC gets a mention, including her usual spin, yet no mention of your representation to the committee.

I had to dash off to pick up No 3 son from Towerbank and stated that at the conclusion of my presentation, making the case that as a parent and grandparent, I wanted to see responsible and robust under age sales policies as well as responsible drinking and that we needed to address the challenges of provision of alcohol to our young people if we are to change our societal attitude to alcohol!

I though DC got way less column inches that she might have on past occasions and I think the more opportunities for those of us who hold views and opinions which differ from hers to present those views, then the less of the Porty face she will become in the eyes of the press etc..

[Bob Jefferson]

Do we know how many letters of support v letters of objection were received?