Local Porty bar/restaurant lacks extract ventilation

[Bob Jefferson]

Denise, I feel your pain. Whether or not (as has been suggested) you are over-reacting to the problem, you are obviously having a really tough time. So, as an impartial observer, I would like to invite myself round to your house for a cup of tea. Milk, no sugar thanks. Please PM me to arrange. I can't promise to back your arguments but I will be as objective as I possibly can. In the interests of balance, I'm also happy to meet with Amanda to hear her side of the story.

[Puerto bella]

Denise maybe doesn't want 'strange' men in her house Bob

[Bob Jefferson]

I'm not that strange and I'm happy to supply my own biscuits. It's a serious offer.

[Porty]

Why would a community pub and a friendly publican want to do that?

With all due respect I believe you are conflating matters. It sounds like Anmanda is friendly to the community that support her pub, in their droves. There is nothing in it for the Espy to negotiate with you. They have a duty to comply with Envirnomental health and licensing policies. The minute, they or any other pub, allow their residential neighbours to influemce their trading, they are on a loser. To me, you are trying to take the law into your own hands and the Espy would be foolish to play along with it. It took some two years for the problem to manifest itself and it will take some time for the approriate authorities and mechanisms to resolve the situation. Your landlord is your best ally here

Wouldn't it be better to try and cooperate with local residents and neighbours?
Denise

Logically that sounds fair but not when the neighbours want to restrict your trade.

[Denise Muir]

Probably better to stop banging on about the same issue and agree to disagree...
On a personal note, something I would have tried to avoid, I have to say that I try to take the less cynical, rose-coloured glasses view and am happier being friendly all round, not just when I stand to gain directly. But obviously when this approach is not encountered in the people we interact with, the disappointment that the world is not actually as we see it, is enormous.
That's probably why I'm not in business, or not in trade with the public anyway. I do work for myself and I have a different approach to my customers, actual, future or whatever they may be. And if I were to "sling a deafie", my reputation would probably be in tatters in minutes (via web).

On a final note (hopefully??) this exchange has been really useful to me and at least many points of view have been portrayed. Events this week would seem to indicate that a concerted effort is finally being made on various fronts to reach a solution. It's been a long time coming (2 months is a long time when you feel like you live in a midden and all your clothes and everything smell like it) - and may not come immediately, but on various fronts I see wheels in motion. And if the Espy manages to keep the smells down in the meantime, as has been assured and as has been the case for 2 days, then I will be the first to recognize it and thank them. That's all I was ever asking for. Not to shut them down nor to restrict their trade. Just to find a cooking compromise in the meantime.
Cheers everyone!
Hope you won't be hearing from me for a while.
Denise

[Bob Jefferson]

Hmm, I'll have had my tea then. Oh well, good luck anyway.

[Porty]

The threat of a visit from you and suddenly every other option smells better.

[midco]

i am curious as to why there has been no mention of the state of health that the Espy staff are in, as they are surely at the heart of your 'distress' so I am assuming they to would have the symptoms you are describing Denise?
Surely no person in their right mind would wish to work in an environment like that?
Just a thought.

[Denise Muir]

i am curious as to why there has been no mention of the state of health that the Espy staff are in, as they are surely at the heart of your 'distress' so I am assuming they to would have the symptoms you are describing Denise?
:

You all seem to be forgetting that, as all the cooking odours, smoke, fumes, smoke from the grill, etc. etc. were being discharged undiluted and undispersed from a faulty pipe (and are STILL seeping naturally through faulty floors) straight into my house, THERE IS NOTHING LEFT FOR ESPY STAFF TO BE BREATHING IN!!!!!!!!

And yes, that was a SHOUT. I am FED UP with having to field this kind of comment.
Yes, I know there are always two sides to every story, but perhaps just for once, wouldn't it be nice if my (the suffering party's) position could be defended first? How hard can it be to get what's going on here??

Hasn't anyone ever left the frying pan on, burnt the bacon, overfried some chips, done some strong garlic, boiled some cawliflower or made a strong curry... and felt your eyes water or had to open a window to let the smoke/smell out?? Well imagine that on a commercial scale, NOT THE ODD SMELL, THE ODD CURRY, OR THE ODD WHIFF every now and then..... but ALL DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK, 31 DAYS A MONTH. A broken pipe was extracting it from the kitchen and emptying it into my house. That's not a little problem to be expected living above a restaurant. That's a major situation.
Even with the windows open, fresh air can't get in for the constant smell coming up. And once it's in, it's in. Thousands of miles away in a far sunnier, less smelly place than 26 The Promenade Portobello, I can still smell rancid cooking smells in everything I haven't managed to wash or taken to launderette.You name it, if it doesn't go in a washing machine IT SMELLS.

In response to any other comments about how I am painting myself the victim and if the situation is/was really that bad, and why don't I just move, my answer is....
Yes, it really was/is that bad.
But hey, get this, I haven't actually done anything wrong.
And I don't actually want to move.
I chose a nice house in a nice place with a nice school and lots of nice people, and most importantly, that didn't smell. Everything else is still nice, just my house isnt.
And get this too, I didn't make it not nice, someone else did.
So maybe someone else should stop making it so not nice instead of me having to go look for something else instead?

Denise

[Epykat]

In response to any other comments about how I am painting myself the victim and if the situation is/was really that bad, and why don't I just move, my answer is....
Yes, it really was/is that bad.
But hey, get this, I haven't actually done anything wrong.
And I don't actually want to move.
I chose a nice house in a nice place with a nice school and lots of nice people, and most importantly, that didn't smell. Everything else is still nice, just my house isnt.

I sympathise with you Denise. We lived above a commercial premises at one time and know people who still do. They've all had problems with the businesses below in one way or another (as we did). We also ran the gauntlet of all the things you've said there. What people forget is that it is your home - okay, it might be their business/livelihood but three of the four closest to us didn't seem to think that normal, neighbourly rules applied to them - and at the end of the day they leave, but you can't. I didn't play loud music and have parties in my house at 3am most weekends - but one of the shop owners below us did - even when they were shut! I didn't leave tons of cardboard outside their front door, but they did it to mine. I didn't leave stinking bins in a communal passageway, but they did. I didn't lay floors at 1am or play my radio blaringly loud at 6.30am but they did. It's very stressful and I totally see where you're coming from.

[Kieran Sylvester]

Hmmm the Espy. Ask to see the EHO recommendations regarding the size of the kitchen and the size of the menu. Might give you some insight into what the EHO think about the large menu which might be causing more odours in your flat.

[Denise Muir]

Interesting to hear the point of view of someone who worked there. Thanks for that.

[Pal of Porty]

If they changed their menu to only 2 dishes, say hamburgers and fish and chips, I cannot see how this would help Denise if they were still cooking the same number of dishes.

[Denise Muir]

I'm sure what Kieren meant was that if they didn't have such a wide menu there wouldn't be so much complicated prep, pre-cooking and multiple cooking involved. As I've always said, they had to start early and keep at it constantly just to keep up. Smells start from 8.30am in the morning right through to late at night. Having such a small kitchen, who knows how they cope. I've seen the plans. It is just not big enough and doesn't seem to have adequate space/facilities to be churning out that amount of food all day every day, and in compliance with H&S and HACCP regulations. Why no one seems to be dealing with that should also be looked into. Is it safe? I for one was told that the piping wasn't safe and was a hazard. Who knows what else is sub-standard?
Maybe someone should stick their head in there some time to see how things are actually run.
I can't do it as the very "kind to the community" Amanda has asked me not to go in there. Strange, considering she's the one causing the nuisance.
I'm no expert, but I wonder if that's why there are so many things that seem to be cooked in large volumes in one place (soups, sauces, curries, whatever) but which have to be cooked hours at a time and release all sorts of smells, or even oily things like burgers and meat done in the oven giving off who knows what amount of smoking oil.

I've only eaten there a couple of times over the past 2 years and can't say I enjoyed the experience, but that's my personal experience. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. As places in Porty go, obviously I can see the appeal for Porty residents, I liked it and tried not to complain for the very same reasons. I could go there with friends too. Only I can't now for the aforementioned fact that she doesn't want to see or hear from me (too awkward??)

I may be the only one, but I found the lingering smells inside the Espy unpleasant too, I could still smell the dampness from the fire they had a year ago (it lingers in the floor deafening and walls), but then again, I'm hyper sensitive because of what's happening in the house.

Anyway, maybe if people weren't so ready to see how their own personal interests might be affected should the Espy have to close down to make improvements, or try to defend the interests of a commercial enterprise operating to the detriment of its direct neighbours in sub-standard conditions, maybe they would take the time to appreciate what is actually going on there.

I'm tired of having to avoid treading on toes as no one seems to care about treading on mine. Maybe it's time to tell things how they are.

Denise

[Kieran Sylvester]

If they changed their menu to only 2 dishes, say hamburgers and fish and chips, I cannot see how this would help Denise if they were still cooking the same number of dishes.

ok i can see how you would think what you do, BUT this is more targeted at the prep side, and having space to avoid cross contamination to follow food hygiene standards. Only having a one chambered fryer will also have a massive impact when it comes to the smells. A small fryer which is being utilized on a grand scale means the oil burns and colours more quickly, giving off more odours. The oil is not changed nightly as it is expensive and is only ever changed when it reaches a state where it affects the colour or cooking of the food. The biggest problem the espy faces is the size of the kitchen, all smells and fumes are concentrated in a small room, after spending hours cleaning the ceiling of grease in there it is easy to see how condensed it is.

[Denise Muir]

Now I understand the nasty smoke in the house and why everything smells of rancid cooking oil. If there was so much grease on the ceiling of the Espy before the extraction system totally packed in, imagine what happens now that it is coming into my house. Why EVERYTHING - clothes, carpets, hair, beds, shoes, laundry, curtains, books, bags, toys, .... EVERTYHING .... SMELLS.
The more I hear and think about what goes on downstairs, the scarier it gets. Realistically speaking though, I'm sure that in these hard times there are loads of businesses that have to cut costs to try and stay in business, but doing it at the cost of health and safety, building safety, and the health and wellbeing of neighbours and their children and the quality of their lives in general is pretty shameful.
Denise

[Kieran Sylvester]

i can vouch for the issues regarding fumes and lack of extraction and ventilation. And Denise should not be pressured into having Bob come round, this is absurd, and by no means appropriate for anyone to suggest this.

[Porty]

i can vouch for the issues regarding fumes and lack of extraction and ventilation.

Are you vouching for general issues regarding fumes and lack of extraction/ventilation or the specific issues Denise is experiencing?

[Kieran Sylvester]

lol ok maybe the wrong word, how about yes i definitely know...And yes i do have first hand knowledge which you don't have so my judgement is made on facts rather than hearsay.

[Epykat]

First hand knowledge won't save you on here Kieran - it's a very tough kangaroo Court

[Kieran Sylvester]

Thats ok Epykat, Having worked there i know all the truth regarding this magnificent establishment and how it works, however i have stood up for Denise because what she says is in fact true, knowing Amanda too, i also know it's the truth but regardless, i hope Denise can sort something out not only for her physical health but for her sanity as she will get nothing out of Amanda. Good luck Denise, best wishes for your cause.

[Makaveli]

I agree with the above post. You can't take a post on an internet forum as gospel until some kind of proof is either available or offered up.

Although in this case I tend to be on Denise's side as I really don't see what she could gain from lying about it and also know what it is like to have a 'troublesome' neighbour.

Hope you get it sorted Denise or at worst verified by an independent witness so as to get your problem solved.

[Kieran Sylvester]

factual track record... you have no idea what your talking about i have only posted a few times on here, none of which are factually incorrect. As far as i'm aware the OP has nothing to do with Portobello park and the school so it show a lot about your character that you feel to have another back handed insult for the people who support this cause... In regards to that particular matter, i made myself clear in what i believe and don't believe i ever gave factually incorrect information when my only beliefs on this matter where that i do not think you should build on green space and i believe the road is a dangerous one. One is a personal opinion, the other is knowledge of having been brought up on living right on this road, where is the dodgy facts? the only person giving "dodgy facts" here matey is you...oops.

In terms of the OP if you want facts ask to see the EHO reports, all the facts are there. having read them and had to change many things to adhere to major and minor demands by the EHO i know what i'm talking about. After an EHO inspection has been carried out a list of demands will be given which you must adhere to and a list of recommendations will also be given which are more of a suggestion. If the prior are not adhered to the council reserve the right to close the establishment down until these "standards" are met. You are given a period of time in which you must meet these standards, as some cannot be done over night. Having just passed an EHO inspection with flying colours, again i will stress i know what i'm talking about and not "factual inaccuracies".

It's blatantly obvious to anyone reading your above statement that you think you know everything, something which clearly is not a "fact".

[seanie]

I thought The Espy was compliant with the standards and the sticking point was the additional recommendations? Is that not the case?

[BeachBum]

I wonder if Amanda is aware of this thread and what her opinion of it all is.

[Bob Jefferson]

I have it on good authority that Denise is no longer resident in this flat.

admin: some posts moved to (was) Local Porty bar/restaurant lacks extract ventilation.

[Lambie]

I’ve been away most of the summer so I didn’t know about any of this. It’s taken an evening to read through all the posts from start to finish. It’s quite heated towards the end there and I’m reluctant to get involved but as the owner of the only other flat directly above the Espy I think I should probably say something.

I can confirm there was a smell.

We first noticed a faint smell and a haze in the air in our living room in May. I went downstairs and spoke to Amanda. She apologised and said she’d cut back on the burgers and reduce the grilled food on the menu and that she’d get someone in to look at extraction. She asked me to keep her informed of any further smells or haze clouds.

A few days later the smell was back and I went down again to let Amanda know. She wasn’t in but one of the waitresses promised to pass the message on. Amanda emailed to ask if the smells had persisted and to keep her informed in the future as she had ventilation people coming in to try and fix the problem. In the mean time she’d cut back on burgers, steaks and fish that might make the smells worse.

We were away for the summer but had family staying in the flat. They were asked to keep an eye on the problem and let us know if it persisted so that we could appraise Amanda. There were occasional faint smells.

I’ve been back a week and not noticed any haze or smell. I haven’t spoken to Amanda yet to find out how the situation has been resolved.

I’ve always found Amanda to be a good neighbour and I like the Espy.