Portobello Community Council

[regent]

Here here pb!
I think a good starting point would be for a standing item on the agenda to be "community consultation". It would allow for general feedback to be given from those representing the community, about how they have consulted and would then provide an opportunity for others to make suggestions as to how consultation could be undertaken if it has not been.
Having it on the agenda also serves the purpose of raising awareness of the need to consult, allows skill sharing and improves transparency.
It also means that the community will be more aware of the issues and may be more likely to become involved in the issues.

[regent]

You could take it a step further and get members to indicate consultation requirements for any decision or issue.

[seanie]

Community Councils: do they really work?

[geofflynn]

Just to let you know that Portobello Community Council will be discussing the letter signed by 88 residents and business owners at the meeting on Monday night (Monday, 25 June).

The meeting will be in the Baptist Church Hall, 7.30 pm start.

I enclose links below to the letter, plus an initial response which I received from the chairman John Stewart.

Hope to see you there!

Cheers,
Geoff Lynn

Letter to Portobello Community Council
http://bit.ly/KzBX5e

Initial reply from John Stewart, chairman
http://bit.ly/LPJRJg

[seanie]

The agenda;

NOTICE OF MEETING: The 300th meeting of Portobello Community Council will be held on Monday, 25th June 2012 at 7:30 pm in Portobello Baptist Church Hall, 185 Portobello High Street.

300th Meeting Agenda

1 Chair's welcome 7.30 pm

2 Presentation by Council Planning dept staff 7.32 pm

3 Police report 7.55 pm

4 Environmental update 8.05 pm

5 Minutes of the previous meeting 8.15 pm

6 Matters arising from the minutes 8.17 pm

7 Agree AOCB 8.27 pm

8 Survey group actions update 8.30 pm

9 Consultation on proposed Community Empowerment and Renewal Bill 8.40 pm

10 Open letter to PCC 8.50 pm

11 Other reports 9.05 pm

a. Treasurer

b. Neighbourhood Partnership

c. Planning

d. Signs and plaques

e. Community centre

f. Joppa Tennis Courts

g. Councillors

12 AOCB 9.15 pm

13 Date of next meeting: Monday 27 August at 7.30 pm in 9.20 pm

Portobello Baptist Church Hall, 185 Portobello High Street.

10 minutes to discuss a 30 page consultation document asking 49 separate questions may be a tad optimistic.

[Mark Cameron]

....and how the well can a letter from 88 members of the community be consigned to item number 10. They just don't get it do they?

[Porty]

It is viewed as an irritation. Much like the commmunity itself.

[regent]

On the last minute it says that the police circulated their "report" prior to the meeting. Is there a rule that he has to say it all out loud for it to be minuted or could it not just be included without the need to repeat. I also noticed that someone on the cc passed on concerns about neighbour disturbance to the police officer. Is this in cc remit? How did complaint come to cc attention. If I have trouble with neighbours it's not the first thing I would think of doing!
Same with environmental update. If the report is circulated this can be adopted. Any questions etc could be asked or issues raised.
This streamlining would remove the focus from those in attendance and hopefully open the door to greater consultation and action. The meetings need to happen after necessary information has been distributed so that need to consult, how to consult and who will do can be decided, so that representative decisions and actions can be carried out by cc.

[BeachBum]

Im always keen to read comments about the Community Council.

One thing though...

If so many people in Portobello are unhappy with how the Community Council happens, surely some of those people should put themselves forward for election and hopefully be elected onto the Community Council and perhaps do a better job than the current Community Councillors.

[seanie]

The last election was Autumn 2009, and the next won't be till next year.

[BeachBum]

The last election was Autumn 2009, and the next won't be till next year.

Thats correct, hopefully lots of people will (1) Stand for election (2) vote in the election, which there will be if more people stand than places available.

[seanie]

At the last round of elections, of the 43 Community Councils across Edinburgh, not a single one actually held an election. Nowhere were there more candidates than places.

[regent]

@ beach bum, when someone becomes a fireman it is implicit in the job description that they will put out fires, builders build houses, police arrest people, shop keepers sell stuff and community councils are there to represent the community.
I don't feel represented by the Tory government but have no plans to run for prime minister. Same theory applies to the community council. If you choose to sit on the cc then you are accountable to the community you serve.
Be a bit of a disaster if firemen decided which fires they wanted to put out rather than getting on with the job. Taking issue with the community you serves views seems a bit bizarre, failing to investigate what the community issues are is unacceptable. There is something wrong if only 167 people out of 12000 people respond to community consultation. If there is a crime wave in porty I am not going to 1. Join the police or 2.congratulate the police on a job well done. I am going to demand a better service from the police.

[regent]

And one other thing, there is no need to see the idea of improving the consultation of the community as a negative, threatening or critical thing. The idea is to make the cc more open, consultative and inclusive. And to look for modern and forward thinking ways to involve people in making porty a better place to live and work in.

[Puerto bella]

I dont think there has ever been a community council 'election' with seats being 'won' in the whole of Scotland!
To ensure that didnt happen one council even doubled the size of places on their community councils.
CCs will always be the way they are and attract the people and interests they do unless their is a national shake up of how engagement is done.
Making your MSPs aware of how unrepresentative you view your CC to be is a way of moving towards change.
Effective engagement at grass roots level does not happen when the same people talk to the same people and have the same conversation and dont listen or want to hear an alternative view.

[regent]

Totally!

[BeachBum]

I dont think there has ever been a community council 'election' with seats being 'won' in the whole of Scotland!
To ensure that didnt happen one council even doubled the size of places on their community councils.
CCs will always be the way they are and attract the people and interests they do unless their is a national shake up of how engagement is done.
Making your MSPs aware of how unrepresentative you view your CC to be is a way of moving towards change.
Effective engagement at grass roots level does not happen when the same people talk to the same people and have the same conversation and dont listen or want to hear an alternative view.

I know of several instances where there have been more nominated candidates than seats available but people have chosen to withdraw rather than see a poll take place.

The way to ensure that dosent happen is to find more people than seats available who are willing to see it through.

Im not sure that there is a Scotland wide shake up needed. Each community council if it has the desire can carry out extensive community engagment, its just nearly all choose not to.

[Puerto bella]

I think we've got more chance of the goodwill, well being and love being speading throughout all of Portyland from the prayer flags than real effective CC engagement with a cross section of the community. If you've not been down our street or along Straiton Place you'll be thinking i've lost the plot. Look up and you will see what I'm talking about.

[SoupDragon]

I noticed the flags yesterday
Anyone know why they there?
They do make me feel all smiley and happy
unlike the PCC

[geofflynn]

This just updates the position regarding the Open Letter signed by 88 residents and business owners to Portobello Community Council and the official response. Please see links below.

Open letter --> http://bit.ly/KzBX5e

Reply from PCC --> http://bit.ly/LPJRJg

(Please Note: The letter was discussed at the PCC meeting 25/6/12. Minutes to follow in due course)

[seanie]

John Stewart's personal reply to the Open Letter was not adopted as the official position of the PCC at the last meeting.

[Porty]

That is outrageous, why are they claiming it was?

[seashell]

Okay - I am officially confused! Looking forward to reading the minutes.

[Puerto bella]

Me too

[Bob Jefferson]

I'm in the process of setting up a page for Portobello Community Council on the new 'Portobello Online' website but I'm reluctant to add contact details because my understanding is that the official contact email address only forwards to John Stewart and Diana Cairns. Nick Stroud, it would seem, was deliberately kept out of the loop as is the new joint secretary, Sean Watters. Can we please have a contact email address that we can be confident will forward to both joint secretaries and can we please ensure that access to the Portobello Community Council website is open to both as well?

[seanie]

The draft minutes are rather bland, but can be found here.

[Porty]

Another phantom adoptions production brought to you by the office bearers at pcc.

[Porty]

I believe John Stewart's personal letter was mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, although I'm not sure in what detail. Noone objected to the content, why would they, it is a purely personal letter.and that's the basis on which, John,brenda,Diana and Arche have assumed the letter was adopted as the official position of PCC.

There was no motion to adopt and therefore no vote. Silence was taken as consensus. Is that likely?
A n alternative explanation of people's silence could be that they are dumbstruck and/or disinterested in a personal letter from one of their fellow CC members.

.

If PCC are to adopt any position it should be AFTER discussion. a personal letter from the Chair or anyome else, written before the discussion, could only be the consensus by some sort of unlikely fluke.

[geofflynn]

Below are links to the slides which formed part of the City of Edinburgh Council Planning Department presentation to Portobello Community Council at the 25 June 2012 meeting.

Stephen Hajducki and Lesley Carus spoke mainly to update the community on the role of Community Councils in the planning process and what needs permission under the new Permitted Development rights.

Powerpoint version --> http://bit.ly/LzHiqA

PDF version --> http://bit.ly/M7iPYY


My notes also cover some of the Q & A after the presentation --> http://bit.ly/Oy2IZh

[Puerto bella]

Lesley Carus made a lot of good points according to the note.
Of particular interest - are the need for PCC to be focused in what they respond to - local developments tend not to be of wider community interest which we've spoken about at length on here previously and there seems to be a general consensus on in the community but not on the PCC. Plus interesting to hear her suggesting them wanting to know mechanisms for consultation and encouraging novel approaches - all sounds healthy and positive.
Also pleased that there was an acknowldegment that pressure/ special interest/ single issue groups - whatever you want to call them, we all know what they are, should not dominate the PCC.
Re: govt encouraging development on greenfield land - not quite true as an across the board statement to say that but I suppose its hard to condense all the national planning policy and guidance, structure plan, local plan et al into one capsule presentation. What Nick was probably getting at was we dont seem to be seeing a sequential approach to the allocation of land in the city and they seem to quick to allocate greenfield land - but maybe its the why that needs to happen thats not communicated well to the public.

[Mark Cameron]

City of Edinburgh council have asked their community councils to complete a questionnaire but it appears they've not sought wider consultation from those represented by those community councillors (namely us).

They maybe expect the community councillors to ask the community but so far I've seen nothing from PCC seeking our views on the content and the reply is due on 1st October.

I've obtained a copy of the questionnaire through a friend on another CC and thought it might be worthwhile posting here to gather peoples views.

Please complete the online survey. I intend to send the results to Eileen Hewitt at City of Edinburgh Council.

Of course she may choose to ignore community feedback but who knows she might just compare it with what comes in from the PCC.

http://bit.ly/QipRz6

Yours in gratitude

Mr Dryburn

[lg1726]

City of Edinburgh council have asked their community councils to complete a questionnaire but it appears they've not sought wider consultation from those represented by those community councillors (namely us).

They maybe expect the community councillors to ask the community but so far I've seen nothing from PCC seeking our views on the content and the reply is due on 1st October.

I've obtained a copy of the questionnaire through a friend on another CC and thought it might be worthwhile posting here to gather peoples views.

Please complete the online survey. I intend to send the results to Eileen Hewitt at City of Edinburgh Council.

Of course she may choose to ignore community feedback but who knows she might just compare it with what comes in from the PCC.

http://bit.ly/QipRz6

Yours in gratitude

Mr Dryburn

Done!!

LG

[Mark Cameron]

Thanks LG

I'd also be interested for the Community Council to make their submission available for the Portobello Community to see - would demonstrate they're embracing the new open and transparent approach so many in the community seem to want from them.

[geofflynn]

http://bit.ly/OOKXqk

12/01952/FUL | Change of use from public house to coffee house (class 3) | 56 King's Road Edinburgh EH15 1DX


The above planning application for change of use from a pub to a cafe does not appear to have been discussed by Portobello Community Council. At least, I can’t see it mentioned in the minutes. Can anyone clarify?

I mention it because of the issues which arose around the change of use to Class 3 for Annie and Belle Cafe at 100 High Street.

[lg1726]

Is there an agenda available for the meeting tonight. Up to my eyes in work and would go to see the Sainsburys stuff if I knew what was to be discussed, otherwise need to focus on the fee-paying stuff!!

LG