New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Discussion and debate on the issues affecting Portobello
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Franck
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Franck » 06 Oct 2011, 13:03

seanie wrote:Your ignorance is your own responsibility, nobody elses.

There is no path between the school and the golfie, and whilst there will be a wooded strip it will be reduced. About 50% of the millenium planting goes to accommodate the school. Also it's a pretty weird definition of 'park' that excludes any area with trees on.

To go back to your earlier point, put it this way; Joppa Quarry Park is smaller than the existing school site. The existing school site that's far to small to meet curricula requirements.

Now can you see why Joppa Quarry wasn't pursued as a site?
As is your arrogance.

As for the point about the quarry being smaller than the current site, that's a much better way of explaining things.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 13:07

My 'arrogance' is a subjective opinion. Your 'ignorance' is an objective fact.

Franck
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Franck » 06 Oct 2011, 13:30

seanie wrote:My 'arrogance' is a subjective opinion. Your 'ignorance' is an objective fact.
Very good.My ignorance probably comes from not being overly involved in the process.Your arrogance no doubts comes from being too closely involved.We'll both no doubt sleep well at night.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 13:51

You've been provided with links to the landscape plan, showing where the paths are and the extent of the school. Inform yourself.

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Puerto bella
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Puerto bella » 06 Oct 2011, 20:56

Have you guys met in real life? Would love to see that. When's the next TP night out? ;)

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 22:01

Don't deprive generations to come of valuable asset
Your feature on Portobello Park (News, October 4) fails to recognise a key fact about the current campaign to save 25 per cent of Portobello's parkland from being lost forever.

It is not a question of having to decide between either a park or a new school. We can have both, as the school could be rebuilt on its current site. This was the council's intention in 2003, as per the Atkins feasibility study, and the current school site was the council's second choice following the educational consultation of 2006.

Rebuilding the school on the exisiting site would provide the new educational facilities needed, whilst retaining an important public open space which is well used for a variety of purposes by children and adults alike.

Free access to green space has proven health benefits, so let's not deprive future generations of this valuable asset.

Diana Cairns, West Brighton Crescent, Edinburgh
The existing school site was not 'second choice' back in 2006. In fact the existing school site was discounted prior to the consultation as being too small. It is true that the combined site of Portobello High and St John's was considered as one of three final options, along with the park and the golf course, but even then it was not 'second choice'. There was no ranking of the three options. Instead both that site and the golf-course were discounted and the park selected. Whilst this dates back some five years, all the documentation and reports are readily available so there really is no good reason to get such basic facts wrong.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 22:07

From The Herald;
In light of the decision on the judicial review about the Hunterston power station, it seems that access to environmental justice is becoming increasingly difficult for ordinary people. You carried a report about the campaign to save Portobello Park in Edinburgh from development and the fact that opponents of the scheme are having to take the City of Edinburgh Council to court over a proposal to build on common good land (“Anger at school site proposal”, The Herald, October 4).

Despite the council giving itself planning permission for this development, (from which it stands to gain financially) there has been no public inquiry or scrutiny of any kind at government level.

It is extremely difficult and expensive for community groups to take these matters to court and it is time that access to environmental justice was made easier and cheaper by introducing some form of specialist environmental tribunal. This is essential if people are to have any kind of faith in our planning and land use system

Diana Cairns,

12 West Brighton Crescent,

Edinburgh.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 22:21

Easier and cheaper for self appointed community groups to challenge decisions taken by due process? Decisions that, on the evidence available, more people in the community support than object to? Decisions that, when upheld by the courts to be legitimate, those 'community groups' then complain that the courts are biased?

Short of giving these self appointed community groups a veto, even when more local people support than object to a proposal, it's difficult to see any change that would keep them happy.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 22:29

Of course the "25% of Portobello's parkland" has been discussed before.

PPAG want a suitably shocking figure for the loss of local parkland, but not too shocking.

Tell people it's 25% and the reaction might be; "Oh, that's awful".

Tell people it's 50% and the reaction might be; "Oh, that doesn't sound right".

Now if you look at local parks within reasonable proximity to the site then yes, you're looking at something over 50Ha, with the school taking up less than 10% of that. So how to get that percentage up?

They’re obviously going to discount the Jewel and Bingham. Even though they’re relatively close to the site, and so clearly relevant in terms of the impact on amenity, they’re in the Craigmillar ward. So the Portobello Park Action Group couldn’t give two stuffs about them. That’s why they suggested them as suitable alternative sites for the school back in 2006.

They probably would’ve liked to have excluded Figgate Park on the basis that it’s not in Portobello either; it’s in the Duddingston ward. However, most people would regard Figgate as a local park, a pretty outstanding one at that, and if the percentage they come up with is too high people might start querying what’s been excluded. Also PPAG did get a lot of strife for suggesting it as a suitable location for St John’s; on “the flat, featureless bit of ground” that now contains the wildflower meadow. So reluctantly they’ve included it to avoid awkward questions.

But they’ve then excluded the 14.4Ha of Portobello Park that has the golf course on it; it’s not ‘precious parkland’ to the Portobello Park Action Group because of the pesky golfers.

That leaves;

Rosefield Park - 1.34Ha
Brighton Park - 0.86Ha
Abercorn Park - 0.79Ha
Portobello Community Garden - 0.13Ha
Straiton Park - 0.35Ha
Joppa Quarry Park - 2.42Ha
Figgate Park - 10.97Ha
Portobello pitches – 5.60Ha

That’s 22.46Ha, of which the 5.6Ha of the Portobello Park pitches are 24.9%.

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Puerto bella
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Puerto bella » 06 Oct 2011, 22:36

They should've got you to sort out the trams.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 22:38

I know nothing about trams.

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Pal of Porty
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Pal of Porty » 06 Oct 2011, 22:48

seanie wrote:I know nothing about trams.
Not too sure if that would be a barrier! :lol:
Justice delayed is justice denied.

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Puerto bella
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Puerto bella » 06 Oct 2011, 22:52

Pal of Porty wrote: Not too sure if that would be a barrier! :lol:
I wish there was a 'like' button on here.

No - seriously. People might not agree with your views Sean but you've got to admire your determination, diligence in your saving of posts, notes, info et al and the time you've obviously dedicated to something you believe in.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 22:57

I suspect there's a fine line between admiration and utter contempt.

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Epykat
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Epykat » 06 Oct 2011, 22:57

Puerto bella wrote:
Pal of Porty wrote: Not too sure if that would be a barrier! :lol:
I wish there was a 'like' button on here.

No - seriously. People might not agree with your views Sean but you've got to admire your determination, diligence in your saving of posts, notes, info et al and the time you've obviously dedicated to something you believe in.

Add to that the fact that you're always right =D>
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 06 Oct 2011, 23:15

I endeavour to persevere...

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Porty
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Porty » 06 Oct 2011, 23:24

I admire you more for your adherence to facts than i do your determination. Not just on the schools issue. Soon as i see a name calling or a backhanded compliment i think: he's done them again.
.....ambition makes you look pretty ugly

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Bob Jefferson
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Bob Jefferson » 07 Oct 2011, 07:42

Yeah, you can see why PPAG hate him. He has cut and pasted them into a corner so many times.

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Puerto bella
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Puerto bella » 07 Oct 2011, 09:42

I think you're probably overestimating the power of the cut and paste Bob. I look at those screeds of cut and pastes and come to another conclusion.
I admire people who clearly have convinction and are prepared to go that extra mile and devote so much of their own time to a cause but just hope that they get the balance right.

Makaveli
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Makaveli » 07 Oct 2011, 10:26

What is DC's problem?

Does she have a default setting to reject any progress in Porty?

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Porty
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Porty » 07 Oct 2011, 14:56

She has got the balance wrong.
.....ambition makes you look pretty ugly

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 07 Oct 2011, 15:09

I think the underlying issue is sometimes forgotten; that the school is in very poor condition, isn't fit for purpose, and needs replacing fairly urgently. That's the fundamental problem that needs addressing.

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 07 Oct 2011, 15:17

I also think there's a tendency to exaggerate how contentious the issue is. I think those very much in favour, and those very much against, are probably both in the minority. I think the largest section of opinion is probably reluctantly OK with it; they're not keen to build on green space, but if the school needs replacing and that's the best site then fair enough, because schools are important and the park isn't that well used anyway.

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Pal of Porty
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Pal of Porty » 07 Oct 2011, 15:53

I do not think the community is split and feel that forums like this and on Facebook, for example most certainly do not reflect the community at large. I have however detected a shift in the way that PPAG are viewed **** since they launched their last minute court action with many 'nuetral' and 'passive supporters' of the school now voicing their unease and disatisfaction.

**** Source: 5 customers in the shop and two people in Porty High Street - PoP, "A shift in the way that PPAG are viewed" September 2011. 8)
Justice delayed is justice denied.

regent
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by regent » 07 Oct 2011, 18:10

Pal of Porty[quote] wrote:
I do not think the community is split and feel that forums like this and on Facebook, for example most certainly do not reflect the community at large.[/
quote] I have however detected a shift in the way that PPAG are viewed **** since they launched their last minute court action with many 'nuetral' and 'passive supporters' of the school now voicing their unease and disatisfaction.

**** Source: 5 customers in the shop and two people in Porty High Street - PoP, "A shift in the way that PPAG are viewed" September 2011. 8)
I agree that the community is not split. As to the online discussions reflecing the community at large....well! I think that it is unlikely that people would speak to each other face to face in the way that has transpired online. I certainly wouldn't. Tempers are clearly frayed and for those most active it has been a long campaign. I cant help thinking that depersonalisation associated with web based communication can compound any divides which are there.
who said that?

seanie
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by seanie » 07 Oct 2011, 18:35

Well I'm no more pleasant I'n real life, I can assure you of that.

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Bob Jefferson
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Bob Jefferson » 07 Oct 2011, 19:01

I can vouch for this.

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gilo
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by gilo » 07 Oct 2011, 19:11

seanie wrote:Well I'm no more pleasant I'n real life, I can assure you of that.
Stop that, I won't hear of it. You're a cuddly cute little fluffy bunny rabbit.

regent
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by regent » 07 Oct 2011, 19:32

seanie wrote:Well I'm no more pleasant I'n real life, I can assure you of that.
What makes you think I was refering to you Seanie!
who said that?

regent
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by regent » 07 Oct 2011, 19:35

Rather I was suggesting that how language is used online can be devoid of the social niceties of face to face communication. Texting is an example with abreviated words etc.
who said that?

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Epykat
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Epykat » 07 Oct 2011, 20:12

regent wrote:Rather I was suggesting that how language is used online can be devoid of the social niceties of face to face communication. Texting is an example with abreviated words etc.

I agree. It might be detrimental to one's health to suggest somebody is a bitter, twisted, witch to her face.......
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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Porty
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Porty » 08 Oct 2011, 00:13

Not if thats the way one sets ones stall out.

Identification is often misconstrued as name calling. Harsh truth can be a bitter pil
ll to swallow. Lol!
.....ambition makes you look pretty ugly

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Puerto bella
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Puerto bella » 08 Oct 2011, 09:37

Karma's a wonderful thing.

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Epykat
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Epykat » 08 Oct 2011, 11:16

Puerto bella wrote:Karma's a wonderful thing.

Wouldn't be so dodgy if Golf Delta hadn't already proven her witch like skills in real life.....be afraid...
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!

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Porty
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Re: New Portobello High School - PPAG/"Save Porty Park"

Post by Porty » 08 Oct 2011, 12:40

BTW what's Golf Delta got to do with it?
.....ambition makes you look pretty ugly

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