New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Scoop]

From June 2009.

As Stephen McIntyre has noted, PPAG does intend to mount a legal challenge against the plan to build on Portobello Park. To date, fundraising events to finance this legal challenge have been extremely well supported, and this proves that many local people support PPAG and its stated aim – to protect Portobello Park from development.

June 2009? Not just a flight of fancy, then?

[seanie]

There is a legal principle that actions should be brought in good time.

Waiting over two years seems a little tardy, especially when fundraising had gone so well.

Why the delay?

[Scoop]

You are speculationg that fundraising has gone so well. Hearsay and fact are two very different things. You may have assumed that fundraising was going well, because that was what you were led to assume. It cannot be misinterpreted as fact, although it may well be true. I have found that it more prudent to not comment until certain of the facts, and even then, I am still laying myself open to being called a gossip.

[seanie]

I'm not speculating that fundraising had gone well. I'm relying on the claim by Alison Connelly that fundraising had gone well.

Are you suggesting Alison Connelly wasn't telling the truth?

What evidence do you have to support that?

[Porty]

PPAG fundraising first reared its ugly head at their open meeting at S Marks which i believe was 2006. Then there was the 2007 pop quiz. Scoop and Epy were members of the YPT team and reported the event as well attended and succesful. So why the delay?

[Scoop]

I have no idea who Alison Connelly is, therefore it cannot be said that I am suggesting that she was, or was not telling the truth. to ask "what evidence do you have to support that? " is a prime example of you using language that assumes one thing, when another may be true.
What I was suggesting is that there seems to be a lot of "speculation" as to who, how or what is funding PPAG's case. Despite it being their business, and their business only, maybe there is a tactic being used to lead you off the scent. Or maybe it is the truth. Either way, it is really nobody's business but the PPAG's.

[Scoop]

PPAG fundraising first reared its ugly head at their open meeting at S Marks which i believe was 2006. Then there was the 2007 pop quiz. Scoop and Epy were members of the YPT team and reported the event as well attended and succesful. So why the delay?

I don't remember being at a ugly fundraising pop quiz. Never heard of the YPT team. But Epykat does ring a bell or two.

[Epykat]

PPAG fundraising first reared its ugly head at their open meeting at S Marks which i believe was 2006. Then there was the 2007 pop quiz. Scoop and Epy were members of the YPT team and reported the event as well attended and succesful. So why the delay?

I do remember that event. I think I came second in the air guitar competition. However, much as we tried, I don't think we managed to give the bar enough profits to fund 3 days in Court. And, from memory, I don't think Scoop was there, although Marya was and maybe you and Bob?

No, actually, I think Bob was going to go but had to call off or go away early.

[seanie]

Alison Connelly has been a committed member of PPAG from its inception, and has frequently represented the organisation in delegations and statements. What you're telling me is that when Alison Connelly tells the Evening News that fundraising has gone extremely well, it's quite wrong of me to take from that that fundraising has in fact gone well.

So you're suggesting, one way or another, that she wasn't telling the truth.

Do you have some evidence to back that up? Or is it simply speculation on your part?

[seashell]

Certain members of the public attending court did not appear to be aware of how one should conduct oneself in such a place. They were certainly old enough to know better and one can only suppose they were getting ready for a visit to the pantomime that evening. Which is just an aside and has nothing to do with the merits (or otherwise) of their legal case.

In a "We're behind you!!!" fashion? You could only have got that view from the cheap seats! Sincere apologies if the white shellsuit or whatever it was that offended Your Ladyship - or should that be Her Ladyship? I can never get it right when I'm under scrutiny.

I wasn't offended in the slightest - just wryly amused at the antics of some people. What Lady Dorrian thought is her own business. I'm sure she was concentrating on the legal arguments though.

[Bob Jefferson]

PPAG fundraising first reared its ugly head at their open meeting at S Marks which i believe was 2006. Then there was the 2007 pop quiz. Scoop and Epy were members of the YPT team and reported the event as well attended and succesful. So why the delay?

I do remember that event. I think I came second in the air guitar competition. However, much as we tried, I don't think we managed to give the bar enough profits to fund 3 days in Court. And, from memory, I don't think Scoop was there, although Marya was and maybe you and Bob?

Are you sure about this? I've done some very foolish things in the past, but I don't think I have ever been quite so drunk as to inadvertently raise funds for PPAG.

[Bob Jefferson]

And stop editing your posts when I'm trying to quote from them!

[Epykat]

PPAG fundraising first reared its ugly head at their open meeting at S Marks which i believe was 2006. Then there was the 2007 pop quiz. Scoop and Epy were members of the YPT team and reported the event as well attended and succesful. So why the delay?

I do remember that event. I think I came second in the air guitar competition. However, much as we tried, I don't think we managed to give the bar enough profits to fund 3 days in Court. And, from memory, I don't think Scoop was there, although Marya was and maybe you and Bob?

Are you sure about this? I've done some very foolish things in the past, but I don't think I have ever been quite so drunk as to inadvertently raise funds for PPAG.

Absolutely sure. In fact, give me a couple of weeks and I'm pretty sure I have photographic evidence. It's all coming back to me now.....and I can even remember your excuse for not turning up.

[Epykat]

And stop editing your posts when I'm trying to quote from them!

Par for the course. You know me....always changing things, making things up....that kind of thing....

[seanie]

Quite.

If Scoop had suggested I had to take the veracity of what you said with extreme caution, of course I'd understand.

I just can't understand why Scoop finds Alison Connelly so untrustworthy.

[Maria]

PPAG fundraising first reared its ugly head at their open meeting at S Marks which i believe was 2006. Then there was the 2007 pop quiz. Scoop and Epy were members of the YPT team and reported the event as well attended and succesful. So why the delay?

I do remember that event. I think I came second in the air guitar competition. However, much as we tried, I don't think we managed to give the bar enough profits to fund 3 days in Court. And, from memory, I don't think Scoop was there, although Marya was and maybe you and Bob?

Are you sure about this? I've done some very foolish things in the past, but I don't think I have ever been quite so drunk as to inadvertently raise funds for PPAG.

Absolutely sure. In fact, give me a couple of weeks and I'm pretty sure I have photographic evidence. It's all coming back to me now.....and I can even remember your excuse for not turning up.

Hmm. Think you might be thinking about
PCAT's 2005 (!)quiz Epy.

[Epykat]

Could be! Whatever, it was a good night

Was that the one we were pogoing at?

And in that case - Porty, I don't remember the one you're talking about. Even then, I'm pretty sure we still didn't contribute enough to fund 3 days in Court. What was the one in the Community Centre? That was good as well.

[Maria]

Allegedly....

[Epykat]

Aw, I get all nostalgic reading those old posts....in the days when we were all nice to each other and had a bit of community spirit....

[Scoop]

Quite.

If Scoop had suggested I had to take the veracity of what you said with extreme caution, of course I'd understand.

I just can't understand why Scoop finds Alison Connelly so untrustworthy.

I cannot help it if you do not understand what "I don't know who Alison Connelly is" means.

[Scoop]

Alison Connelly has been a committed member of PPAG from its inception, and has frequently represented the organisation in delegations and statements. What you're telling me is that when Alison Connelly tells the Evening News that fundraising has gone extremely well, it's quite wrong of me to take from that that fundraising has in fact gone well.

So you're suggesting, one way or another, that she wasn't telling the truth.

Do you have some evidence to back that up? Or is it simply speculation on your part?

I'm suggesting that everything is open to interpretation, and your interpretation may have been different from someone else's interpretation. Evidence? Your choice of words assumes that I have said something, but it is only your interpretation of what I said. It was speculation on my part, and is speculation on yours.

[seanie]

Your knowledge of who Alison Connelly is, has no bearing on the fact that you've suggested I'm wrong to place any trust in what she says. That is what you have in effect suggested.

I'm just asking you to clarify why what she's said is not to be trusted.

[Porty]

Aw, I get all nostalgic reading those old posts....in the days when we were all nice to each other and had a bit of community spirit....

The PPAG quiz was when I suggesteg your team name should be Women Against Kool New Schools- you opted for YPT.

If they lose PPAG should pay council expenses.The council already spent thousands acquiring legal advice. That advice was good enough for the entire city and its elected representatives .If it turns out the advice was correct then no way the council should foot the bill. Not with my council tax and not with yours .

[Epykat]

Aw, I get all nostalgic reading those old posts....in the days when we were all nice to each other and had a bit of community spirit....

The PPAG quiz was when I suggesteg your team name should be Women Against Kool New Schools- you opted for YPT.

If they lose PPAG should pay council expenses.The council already spent thousands acquiring legal advice. That advice was good enough for the entire city and its elected representatives .If it turns out the advice was correct then no way the council should foot the bill. Not with my council tax and not with yours .

I don't know what any of that has to do with a night out. The Council spend my tax on lots of things I don't agree with.

[Scoop]

Your knowledge of who Alison Connelly is, has no bearing on the fact that you've suggested I'm wrong to place any trust in what she says. That is what you have in effect suggested.

I'm just asking you to clarify why what she's said is not to be trusted.

They'd also been boasting of their fundraising successes for years previously.

It might be assumed that from your use of "boasting", you yourself had some doubts. There I go again. Speculating.

[seanie]

As Stephen McIntyre has noted, PPAG does intend to mount a legal challenge against the plan to build on Portobello Park. To date, fundraising events to finance this legal challenge have been extremely well supported and this proves that many local people support PPAG and its stated aim – to protect Portobello Park from development.

I think writing to a newspaper with that claim could reasonably be described as boasting.

[Porty]

The night out was a fundraiser for PPAG . People like your good self and Tom Nimmo did their bit to delay the New school and to fund the court action. Thats what its got to do with

I dont expect you to agree with me on the court expenses but I can be unhapoy if the council spend your tax proving something they had already paid for.PPAG should be wholly responsibke. They are the only ones doubting.

[seanie]

Oh, and maybe you should google to find out what 'boasting' means. Eh, Scoop?

[Scoop]

Oh, and maybe you should google to find out what 'boasting' means. Eh, Scoop?

Good suggestion. Here's is (my) interpretation of "boasting". Yours may differ.

brag, gasconade, shoot a line, vaunt, tout, gas, bluster, swash, blow
puff - speak in a blustering or scornful manner; "A puffing kind of man"
exaggerate, hyperbolise, hyperbolize, overstate, amplify, magnify, overdraw - to enlarge beyond bounds or the truth; "tended to romanticize and exaggerate this `gracious Old South' imagery"


I like the "enlarge blah blah ... truth " bit.

[Porty]

One final thought of the evening.. were PPAG self funding it would certainly be true to say "its their business". We are all aware they are raising money from the general public which makes it public business.

[Scoop]

One final thought of the evening.. were PPAG self funding it would certainly be true to say "its their business". We are all aware they are raising money from the general public which makes it public business.

Are you saying that they are raising money from the general public, without the general public being fully informed as to how that money will be used? Although, now you come to mention it, when I make donations I don't insist on seeing a fully audited set of accounts before doing so. That would be unrealistic, and having made a choice to part with my money, I don't really care how it's spent. It's not that important to me.

[seanie]

No Scoop, I didn't ask you to provide your own definition of what the term means, I suggested you check the dictionary understanding of the term. Afterall you're suggesting that my use of the term implies I didn't believe the claims. Is that really what boasting means?

Well since you were happy to use the freeinline dictionary before let's look at it;

Boast 1  (bst)
v. boast·ed, boast·ing, boasts
v.intr.
To glorify oneself in speech; talk in a self-admiring way.
v.tr.
1. To speak of with excessive pride.
2. To possess or own (a desirable feature): "[the] capital of a region in the southeast that boasts bountiful coal fields" (US Air).
3. To contain; have.
n.
1. The act or an instance of bragging.
2. A source of pride.

So, unedifying though it might be, there's nothing inherent to the term boasting that implies falsehood, untruth, or even exaggeration. Rather it implies excessive pleasure or pride.

So I've not suggested that Alison Connelly can't be trusted. That was you.

Although you've yet to provide a good reason why.

[Scoop]

Again, ho hum.....I do not know Alison Connelly, and I do not know about anything that she has said, or not said. It is you who conjured this up. It is you who has implied that I do not trust the word of someone whom I don't know, and whom I haven't met. It would be impossible, and indeed foolhardy, for me, or for anyone else to make an assumption on her, or indeed any other unknown person. Do not put words into my mouth. Do not try to make it appear that I have implied something, which I clearly have not. It is silly and it is making you seem petty.
However, to avoid any doubt, let me make this clear, just so that you stop worrying about my opinion of Alison Connelly, and so that you can let go of your need to defend her good character to me, should I ever meet Alison Connelly, or hear of anything that she may have to say, I will have no reason not to believe what she is saying in the first instance. Unless of course I know a different truth from hers.

[Scoop]

No Scoop, I didn't ask you to provide your own definition of what the term means, I suggested you check the dictionary understanding of the term. Afterall you're suggesting that my use of the term implies I didn't believe the claims. Is that really what boasting means?

Well since you were happy to use the freeinline dictionary before let's look at it;

Boast 1  (bst)
v. boast·ed, boast·ing, boasts
v.intr.
To glorify oneself in speech; talk in a self-admiring way.
v.tr.
1. To speak of with excessive pride.
2. To possess or own (a desirable feature): "[the] capital of a region in the southeast that boasts bountiful coal fields" (US Air).
3. To contain; have.
n.
1. The act or an instance of bragging.
2. A source of pride.

So, unedifying though it might be, there's nothing inherent to the term boasting that implies falsehood, untruth, or even exaggeration. Rather it implies excessive pleasure or pride.

So I've not suggested that Alison Connelly can't be trusted. That was you.

Although you've yet to provide a good reason why.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/boast

Oh, that wasn't my definition, it WAS the free dictionary definition. Such a useful tool, don't you think? I'm always using it. But I'm flasttered that you assumed that I knew all those definitions. If I didn't before, I do now.

[seanie]

So why the delay?