Edinburgh Draft Open Space Audit

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 28 May 2009, 17:09

From Maureen Child:

On Thursday, there is a consultation on the use of open space by staff from the Council's planning department. They have just completed a draft audit of open space covering the whole city which will be very useful for us all to use in the future. This starts at 6.30pm and local people's input is very welcome. It can be seen at the Libraries throughout Edinburgh and on the internet on www.edinburgh.gov.uk/openspacestrategy There is a questionnaire to be filled in and if you want to take part, you can get questionnaires there, from Libraries or by phoning 0131 469 3411 or emailing OpenSpaceStrategy@edinburgh.gov.uk

There is also a questionnaire for children and young people and a lot of work is being done in schools so youngsters have the chance to get an input. They are interested in what open spaces people use, how they use them and what people think of their quality. The end date for comments is 10 July and the comment will help frame an action plan for your local area.

Anyone who lives in Portobello will already know without having to read the draft document that we are blessed with more than our fair share of access to open space. In fact, the figures show that:

92.7% of houses and flats are within 400 metres walking distance of some type of significant accessible open space.

The average for Edinburgh is 82%. To our huge advantage of course is the Promenade - a fantastic asset to the community - and if you add in the beach, which isn't included as open space in this audit, then you begin to appreciate just how fortunate we are.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 28 May 2009, 17:29

Look at their interactive map and see if you can spot a mistake.

Look at the High Street.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 28 May 2009, 18:09

I think we need a clue. Or better still, just tell us.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 28 May 2009, 19:38

You can fill the questionnaire in on line too. To me .portobello park and golf course doesn't appear to be counted in the figures as accesinle green space. Is that correct?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 28 May 2009, 19:49

Why do you think that? Playing fields and golf courses are both included.

4.2 The following overview summarises the draft audit information in terms of the quantity and distribution of publicly-accessible open space citywide and in each neighbourhood partnership area. This defines significant accessible open spaces as comprising all sites which fall into one of the following categories and which are classified as accessible in the draft audit:

• parks and gardens;
• amenity greenspace;
• play spaces;
• playing fields;
• golf courses;
• green corridors;
• semi-natural greenspace;
• churchyards and cemeteries; and
• civic space.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 28 May 2009, 20:09

I must be mistaken. In that case the new school can only have a.positive effect on the 92 per cent of people in the area who live within 400m of a significant open space- right? (I mean due to the creation of the new park on the site of the old school)

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 28 May 2009, 20:10

Both the golf course and pitches are included as significant open space but the golf course is not classed as accessible.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 28 May 2009, 20:35

Most courses are recorded as 'not accessible' since there is not usually a tradition of public access across the course.

That would make sense. So how big does an open space have to be, to be considered 'significant'? When the new school is built the public football pitches will remain. Wouldn't they still count as 'significant'?

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 28 May 2009, 20:49

It varies depending on the type of space. If the remaining grass pitches remain as public park, then they'd recorded as accessible. If the all weather pitch is within the school grounds it'd also be recorded as significant open space but not accessible.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 28 May 2009, 20:56

However the space is classed it is going to be difficult to convincingly argue there's a shortage of open space in the partnership area. We are much better off than average.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 28 May 2009, 21:08

Agreed. It's a point that we repeatedly made over on the Schools threads. You don't need an audit to see that, you just need to open your eyes.

It's one of the major factors that makes Portobello such a great place to live, and particularly for families.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 28 May 2009, 21:10

This is just the first stage in developing the audit and strategy. When they analyse it in more detail it might throw up shortfalls in particular types of space, or in particualr areas. But overall we appear to be one of the better provided for wards.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 28 May 2009, 21:12

And in one way the audit underestimates the open space amenity as the actual beach isn't included, only the prom.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 28 May 2009, 21:22

Nor does it include Figgate Park, since it isn't within our NPA although it is probably within 400 metres walking distance of hundreds of Portobello families, including many PPAG supporters ironically.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 05 Jun 2009, 13:49

From today's EN Letters Page:

Be shore to take beach into account

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 05 Jun 2009, 15:18

Seanie reads like he is irritated- Dianas letter has highlighted one significant, albeit inaccessible, open space that's been omitted from the audit! .

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 05 Jun 2009, 15:25

That wouldn't be a mobile space by any chance would it?

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 29 Jun 2009, 22:26

More fun at the Community Council.

A number of Community Councillors take the view that the promenade isn't an important civic space and so should be removed from the open space audit.

I believe the phrase "little more than a pavement" was used by someone at one point.

Do you think that accurately reflects the views of the Portobello Community?

Post by **wangi** » 29 Jun 2009, 22:51

seanie wrote:Do you think that accurately reflects the views of the Portobello Community?

I'd be surprised. Personally the beach should be added, not the prom removed...

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 29 Jun 2009, 22:53

If this is a PPAG tactic to make it look as though we have less open space than we actually have, then I think that is desperately sad.

The Promenade, arguably, is our most popular area of open space. Sure, it's a pavement but it's also a cycle track (official or otherwise) and an arena for all kinds of sporting and artistic activities. Think of the marathons, the triathlons, the people who walk, jog and run along there every day. Think of the safe route to school it provides for hundreds of children. Think of the fantastic events that organisations like POD produce on the Promenade.

Little more than a pavement? What utter nonsense!

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 29 Jun 2009, 22:56

It makes little sense on the face of it.

Once you've spotted the elephant in the room however, things become clearer.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 29 Jun 2009, 23:08

Are the community council going to petition the Scottish government to have all promenades removed from the list of qualifying types of open space?

These people want to make up the rules as they go along and to suit themselves. The term community council isn't really appropriate.

Tell me, was it the same people who object to the overshadowing of the prom who also describe it as little more than a pavement?

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 29 Jun 2009, 23:14

I don't think all those who want it removed are necessarily coming at it from the same perspective.

Another argument was that the promenade was of city wide significance.

So it couldn't possibly be counted as a local asset.

Because local people wouldn't be able...to...er...access....er...no...hang on, you've lost me?

Still doesn't make sense.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 29 Jun 2009, 23:50

You certain you were at the community council meeting? Sounds like you may have mistakenly sat in on dress rehearsal of the new Animal Farm play.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 30 Jun 2009, 10:05

Here's what the secretary of the Community Council had to say about the promenade, on behalf of PMAG, in the Evening News on March 6th 2009.

But the Portobello Masterplan Action Group (PMAG), which helped shape council plans for the area, is urging local residents to object to the plans for the fun park at Pipe Lane.

PMAG spokeswoman Caroline Hosking, who is also secretary of Portobello Community Council, said: "We have great concerns about the planning application and urge local residents and all who value Portobello's Promenade and kilns, to write with their objections to the council's planning department. People are very committed to making sure Portobello is a nice place to live.

"Portobello is Edinburgh's seaside, and the shadows that these two huge buildings will cast on the Promenade will make it a cold dark windy area, overlooked by private housing, rather than an improved Promenade with more leisure opportunities for all."

Who else is in PMAG- Hawkins, Cairns, Ward ? Wish these people would be consistent.

Little more than a pavement!!

Here's what DC Cairns had to say recently in the Evening News:

Secondly, no members of the public have demanded an open space audit. This initiative has come purely from the council so that they can identify open space they can develop.

Thirdly, the statistic quoted fails to mention that the reason for the allegedly high level of open space in the area is because Portobello Promenade is included. The Prom is fine for a stroll but you can't play a game of football or rounders on it, nor can you let your dog off the leash for a run and with the likely introduction of cycling on the Prom, there will be even more restrictions on it. In fact it will become a transport corridor. What next? Will the sea be classified as open space?

According to her the council have only included the prom in the open space audit so they can develop it. And it is a transport corridor.

So which is it- pavement, transport corridor or leisure amenity of city wide signifigance? I say its just more proof that some unscrupulous people will say anything to further their self interest- regardless of truth or reality.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 30 Jun 2009, 10:45

Porty wrote:Wish these people would be consistent.

They are actually very consistent!

P.S. Was the Vicar of Dibley at the meeting?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 30 Jun 2009, 10:56

Cows on the pavement:

http://www.alibopo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/cow1.html

Post by **wangi** » 30 Jun 2009, 11:30

Pulling this back round...

It's important that if you do have a view, and you want that view recognised by the council then you should participate in the audit:

edinburgh.gov.uk/openspacestrategy

We are especially interested in your views on spaces other than parks. We want to know which open spaces people use, what people think of their quality and what changes would improve open space provision in your area. You should complete the questionnaire no later than 10 July 2009.

L/

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 30 Jun 2009, 17:19

PPAG's hand in this is made abundantly clear in this extract from their website:

Dear Park lover

The council has launched an audit on open space in the city and is carrying out consultation on it. This will inform the preparation of an open space strategy for Edinburgh, which will set standards of provision across the city and will help set priorities for change in open space over the next five years. You can view the document on line at: www.edinburgh.gov.uk/openspacestrategy.

Page 7 is concerned with the Portobello/Craigmillar neighbourhood partnership area and states that. " 92.7% of houses and flats are within 400m walking distance of some type of significant accessible open space" This is one of the highest percentages for all neighbourhood partnerships and is partly due to the inclusion of Portobello promenade as civic space." This is in direct contrast with the current Local Plan for NE Edinburgh which identifies a deficit of open space in the area!

The Promenade may be a "civic space" but you can´t play football or any other games on it. Someone with a suspicious mind could be forgiven for wondering if the area is going to be seen as having a surplus of open space and therefore able to lose some (maybe a certain park?). There is also a consultation going on at the moment over cycling on the Promenade . If cycling is allowed officially allowed on the Prom then it will become a transport corridor, i.e. NOT open space.

There is a map showing all the open spaces in Edinburgh and interestingly it shows the Park merely as playing fields. It needs to be pointed out to the council that Portobello Park is a "City Park", as identified in the Council´s own Public Parks and Gardens Strategy.

The new Edinburgh City Plan (not yet adopted) proposes open space policies which state that it may be acceptable to build on green space if there is an excess of open space in the area! The excess would be identified by carrying out an audit. Any alarm bells ringing yet? How much is too much?! It appears that the open space audit may be more about identifying open space for development than about protecting it.

It is important therefore that those of us who wish to save the Park respond to this consultation. Please visit www.edinburgh.gov.uk/openspacestrategy where you will find an online form you can complete with your views by Friday 10 July.

Thank you for your support.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 30 Jun 2009, 17:37

I would have thought that if cycling on the Prom is given the go ahead then its value as Open Space would be enhanced, surely? If by 'transport corridor' PPAG means a convenient and safe off-road cycle route then why don't they say that? I doubt that it's going to be given motorway status.

The Promenade, as I have already indicated, is many things to many people. You can't play games on it? Try telling that to the kids who use bikes, in-line skates, go-karts and mini-scooters. Maybe not football, but then we have football pitches at Portobello Park, which will remain when the new school is built.

Don't be fooled - this is just another PPAG scam designed, as all their scams are, to try to stop local children getting the school they deserve.

Post by **wangi** » 30 Jun 2009, 17:46

Bob Jefferson wrote:Maybe not football, but then we have football pitches at Portobello Park, which will remain when the new school is built

"Joppa United" train weekly on Portobello Beach. Kids kick around balls on the Prom everyday. The Prom and beach combined are a substantial open space which is well used by residents of Portobello and Edinburgh.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 30 Jun 2009, 19:08

Thre was an impromtu performance of Thriller on the Prom in the early hours of Saturday morning.

Other things I've seen on The Prom
Unicyclists
kids skating/pogo/hula hoop etc
Marathon
Moonwalk ( not the MJ kind )
The running club every Wednesday
Folk having picnic and BBQs, on the seawall- not everyone can get onto the beach-as Rapunzell will tell you.
Fiddlers , guitarists and other musicians at Hogmanay
Bat watchers

Then the beach its self has kites, kite surfers, BBQs, sunbathers, sailing...

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 30 Jun 2009, 19:36

"There is a map showing all the open spaces in Edinburgh and interestingly it shows the Park merely as playing fields. It needs to be pointed out to the council that Portobello Park is a "City Park", as identified in the Council´s own Public Parks and Gardens Strategy."

If they insist on the whole of Portobello Park being included, as classified in the Public Parks and Gardens Strategy, that will INCREASE not decrease the amount of accessible open space. The reason only the playing fields are shown is they've decided to classify the golf-course as not accessible.

That aspect of the audit currently works in PPAG's favour.

And they're arguing against it.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 30 Jun 2009, 21:06

PPAG wrote: Page 7 is concerned with the Portobello/Craigmillar neighbourhood partnership area and states that. " 92.7% of houses and flats are within 400m walking distance of some type of significant accessible open space" This is one of the highest percentages for all neighbourhood partnerships and is partly due to the inclusion of Portobello promenade as civic space." This is in direct contrast with the current Local Plan for NE Edinburgh which identifies a deficit of open space in the area!

The Promenade may be a "civic space" but you can´t play football or any other games on it. Someone with a suspicious mind could be forgiven for wondering if the area is going to be seen as having a surplus of open space and therefore able to lose some (maybe a certain park?). There is also a consultation going on at the moment over cycling on the Promenade . If cycling is allowed officially allowed on the Prom then it will become a transport corridor, i.e. NOT open space.

The NE local plan presumably covers an area greater than portobello/craigmillar so PPAG compare apples with pears. And the NE plan was formed years beforethe open space audit took place!!

It is not up to the council to decide whether or not to include the prom as open space. the scottish government decides.

If all of a sudden the Prom were left out of the audit, what effect would it have? We know it is a big space and very popular but the prom is on the edge of the neighborhood. therefore only people living within 400m (north- maybe as far up as the bridge on Brighton Place?) would influence the statistics and most people live within 400m of other significant open spaces. It would have a marginal effect on the audits 92.7 percentage - mostly in the Kings Road area. We would still be amongst the highest in the city.

And here's the PPAG rub " Someone with a suspicious mind could be forgiven for wondering if the area is going to be seen as having a surplus of open space and therefore able to lose some (maybe a certain park?)"

PPAG are driven by wonderers with suspicios minds who really don't deserve to be forgiven. A few troubled individuals with a distorted view of reality, that is founded in a hatred of all things council and a seemingly boundless propensity for failing to understand plain English.

It is a PITA but entertaining all the same. It seems they get crazier by the day. As Bob says; it is increasingly desperate.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 30 Jun 2009, 21:32

SoupDragon wrote:Thre was an impromtu performance of Thriller on the Prom in the early hours of Saturday morning.

Other things I've seen on The Prom
Unicyclists
kids skating/pogo/hula hoop etc
Marathon
Moonwalk ( not the MJ kind )
The running club every Wednesday
Folk having picnic and BBQs, on the seawall- not everyone can get onto the beach-as Rapunzell will tell you.
Fiddlers , guitarists and other musicians at Hogmanay
Bat watchers.

And much more. The list is endless. Not just open space but quality open space. In fact, if you wanted to compile a list of the most important open spaces in the Portobello area, you would almost certainly put the beach and the prom right up there at the very top. I have walked along the Promenade on, literally, hundreds of occasions since I moved here 16 years ago and I never tire of it.

I find it rather sad that certain people are talking it down, dismissing it as 'little more than a pavement', solely in order to promote their own twisted agenda.