Having vacant shops on the High Street is bad enough, but they look ten times worse when they are flyposted. My guess is that some of the people responsible for this are local. Perhaps some of them are forum users? Flyposting is an offence and I really wish these groups would find other ways of communicating their message. It's not that I necessarily disagree with what they have to say, I just don't think they do their cause any good sometimes.
I've heard the arguments. These groups can't afford corporate communication. The end justifies the means. Maybe what we need is a communal billboard space where everyone can post? Would the flyposters then leave the vacant shops alone?
Flyposting
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Guest
Not sure I agree with you Bob. Like you, I know all the arguments, and the zero-tolerance line is pretty compelling. But flyposting is basically a fairly anodyne form of vandalism. and the very illegality of it is one of the reasons why it is used - by giving the club/band/whatever an underground, slightly dangerous profile.
BTW: before anyone else jumps in and quotes me, yes I know. Anodyne or not, vandalism is vandalism
BTW: before anyone else jumps in and quotes me, yes I know. Anodyne or not, vandalism is vandalism
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Surrealist
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Surrealist
Maybe I should form the Locomotive Procreative Action Group and campaign for the right to b*nk in train compartments.
I promise not to flypost for our first public meeting.
And I *mean* "public meeting" - we'll be pairing off on a route to be announced shortly before the meeting so as to stop the transport police interrupting our fun.
All copulators must, however, have valid tickets. And I hope the inspector is careful with his/her clipping tool - ouch!!
I promise not to flypost for our first public meeting.
And I *mean* "public meeting" - we'll be pairing off on a route to be announced shortly before the meeting so as to stop the transport police interrupting our fun.
All copulators must, however, have valid tickets. And I hope the inspector is careful with his/her clipping tool - ouch!!
shops
another empty shop - shame on the superstore developments that made this happen and let's hope another superstore doesn't cause all the other shops to close - we'd have a street full of empty shops with similar creative literacy on them!
can't comment on creative fun in trains but have no objections at all providing they renationalise the railways ofcourse -
can't comment on creative fun in trains but have no objections at all providing they renationalise the railways ofcourse -
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Surrealist
Re: Flyposting
oh no - i've "sexed up" Bob's original post!!!!!Bob wrote:Having dictatorships in the Middle East is bad enough, but they look ten times worse when they are invaded. My guess is that some of the people responsible for this are local. Perhaps some of them are forum users? Invasion is an offence and I really wish these groups would find other ways of communicating their message. It's not that I necessarily disagree with what they have to say, I just don't think they do their cause any good sometimes.
I've heard the arguments. They have weapons of mass destruction. The end justifies the means. Maybe what we need is a communal system of living? Would the invaders then leave the other countries alone?
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Guest
there's a thread in here somewhere if you look hard for it
source: http://www.cleansafeworldwide.org/doc.a ... 311&cat=26Posters plastered over walls, statues and phone boxes - costing taxpayers tens of thousands to clean up - make areas look squalid and run-down, the organisation (Keep Britain Tidy) says. It claims flyposting attracts graffiti, sending out the signal an area is uncared for and can exacerbate people's fear of crime. This in turn stops businesses choosing to locate there and can also keep visitors away.
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Surrealist
it's all about perspective
Formerly an Iraqi maternity hospital - now another eyesore.
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Guest
it's about flyposting
So can't we care about the people of Iraq AND our immediate environment? Or are the two mutually exclusive? In any case, this is about flyposting, not politics. The fact that the posters in question clearly emanate from local left wing groups is irrelevant. I don't want ANYONE to flypost Portobello, whatever they are advocating.
Just because I agree with the views expressed in these messages doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the means of communication. How about those responsible agree to remove the mess? I'm serious, I'm willing to help out and I'm sure Robert Davidson, our local Task Force Manager would provide support. Any more volunteers?
Just because I agree with the views expressed in these messages doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the means of communication. How about those responsible agree to remove the mess? I'm serious, I'm willing to help out and I'm sure Robert Davidson, our local Task Force Manager would provide support. Any more volunteers?
Last edited by Guest on 13 Mar 2004, 22:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Surrealist
I'm sure that during the days of the civil rights demonstrations in the US there were people who complained about the litter that the marchers must have left.
Maybe Bob's conscious mind thinks he is against the Iraq war, but his reaction to the realities of conducting a campaign against it spells out what his unconscious mind is saying.
You are what you do, not what you think.
By being a member of an organisation whose leader authorises dropping TNT on children, Bob has a difficult enough time justifying his supposed opposition to this conflict. But criticism of those who share his view and are actually doing something about it whilst remaining in said organisation crosses the border from mere hypocrisy into cognitive dissonance.
That would be funny, were it not so decidedly unfunny.
Maybe Bob's conscious mind thinks he is against the Iraq war, but his reaction to the realities of conducting a campaign against it spells out what his unconscious mind is saying.
You are what you do, not what you think.
By being a member of an organisation whose leader authorises dropping TNT on children, Bob has a difficult enough time justifying his supposed opposition to this conflict. But criticism of those who share his view and are actually doing something about it whilst remaining in said organisation crosses the border from mere hypocrisy into cognitive dissonance.
That would be funny, were it not so decidedly unfunny.
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Guest
And which organisation would this be exactly? I'm usually pretty careful about what I take out subscriptions for and I would hate to think I had overlooked something.By being a member of an organisation whose leader authorises dropping TNT on children, Bob has a difficult enough time justifying his supposed opposition to this conflict.
Are we still talking about flyposting?
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Surrealist
Gavin, Lawrence, Susan, Maureen.........and Bob.
At least Bertrand Russell had a little backbone and quit the party over the Vietnam conflict.
Let's not pick nits here about the difference between support and membership - when an organisation's leader is blowing the limbs off kids, the supporters and members of that organisation have blood on their hands.
You can't even claim you've been duped, like the saluting masses in 30s Germany found out to their cost.
At least Bertrand Russell had a little backbone and quit the party over the Vietnam conflict.
Let's not pick nits here about the difference between support and membership - when an organisation's leader is blowing the limbs off kids, the supporters and members of that organisation have blood on their hands.
You can't even claim you've been duped, like the saluting masses in 30s Germany found out to their cost.
what is this about?
This thread is becoming not nice to put it mildly- it seems that certain types of flyposting, are getting severe criticism and other flyposting which can be for slimming clubs, jumble sales, lost dogs and cats, pop groups,bands playing, benefits, circuses, carpet shop names left on empty shops for over a year, daft internet sites, boarded up windows of closed shops, graffiti which looks like poetry but I can't make head nor tail of it and I've been trying (on gray box by pedestrian crossing near Seafield roundabout)etc are not getting criticised. Why is that ? (by the way I have no objections to any of that I don't think,, or if I do it perhaps takes up 1/2 second in a year of my thinking time- probably just the slimming clubs because I don't like their message (usual reason people don't like particular types of flyposting - they don't agree with the message - Bob I think is unusual in agreeing with the message but not liking the way it is being delivered). I would object to anything racist, sexist, homophobic, or anti disability - those are probably the main thingsI would really object to, quite rightly.
Why is it that the 20,000 or more (possibly twice or three times that number as the occupying British and American troops are not counting) people killed in Iraq is equated as being equally important as flyposting - which it seems you are saying B to me. that's like watching a murder and being worried about someone putting notices up saying did anyone else see this atrocity? I would imagine the people who have lost relatives, their homes, jobs, water, electricity, children, and whose lives will never be the same again, would love to be worried about flyposting and not where the next bombs are coming from or how to find food, water, shelter, heat, air conditioning in the extreme summer heat when people died of the v high temperature. How about a proper political debate here instead of a verbal punch up? personally I think there are very few views about life that can be expressed that do not have a political bias - the honest thing is to declare your political bias and then we can have a proper debate. with hopefully other people being able to join in . That would be really great - how about a political thread where we can really debate political issues and not second-hand through a debate about flyposting?
Why is it that the 20,000 or more (possibly twice or three times that number as the occupying British and American troops are not counting) people killed in Iraq is equated as being equally important as flyposting - which it seems you are saying B to me. that's like watching a murder and being worried about someone putting notices up saying did anyone else see this atrocity? I would imagine the people who have lost relatives, their homes, jobs, water, electricity, children, and whose lives will never be the same again, would love to be worried about flyposting and not where the next bombs are coming from or how to find food, water, shelter, heat, air conditioning in the extreme summer heat when people died of the v high temperature. How about a proper political debate here instead of a verbal punch up? personally I think there are very few views about life that can be expressed that do not have a political bias - the honest thing is to declare your political bias and then we can have a proper debate. with hopefully other people being able to join in . That would be really great - how about a political thread where we can really debate political issues and not second-hand through a debate about flyposting?
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Guest
Carla - I quite agree that this thread is not the place for a discussion about politics. In fact the subject in question is flyposting, or at least I had thought this was the case. I have already made it clear that what I object to is flyposting per se. It just so happens that the only examples I could find locally are of a political persuasion. City-wide I would agree that the problem is more often posters for bands, gigs, clubs etc.
The purpose of this forum is to facilitate discussion on matters of local interest. If people want to debate world politics then perhaps they should start a forum of their own. On the other hand I believe in free speech, which is why I tolerate Surrealist.
Of course I don't equate the war in Iraq with flyposting. At the risk of repeating myself, this thread is on the subject of flyposting. If anyone else has views on flyposting this is the place to post them. If you wish to discuss Iraq, Nazi Germany or any other subject then you have come to the wrong place.
Surrealist - I think you are becoming a little hysterical. I like you better when you are being funny.
The purpose of this forum is to facilitate discussion on matters of local interest. If people want to debate world politics then perhaps they should start a forum of their own. On the other hand I believe in free speech, which is why I tolerate Surrealist.
Of course I don't equate the war in Iraq with flyposting. At the risk of repeating myself, this thread is on the subject of flyposting. If anyone else has views on flyposting this is the place to post them. If you wish to discuss Iraq, Nazi Germany or any other subject then you have come to the wrong place.
Surrealist - I think you are becoming a little hysterical. I like you better when you are being funny.
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Surrealist
Heheheh.
So it's only because Bob believes in free speech that I am tolerated? That's fascinating in that it means that, on a whim, Bob could decide to start censoring people on the board.
If this was a community forum, the decision to censor would be taken collectively, if at all. Forums are a great tool as they enable you to have interactive polls in which each registered member gets one vote.
Thanks for informing me of my hysteria - in my opinion I am positively euthymic!
So it's only because Bob believes in free speech that I am tolerated? That's fascinating in that it means that, on a whim, Bob could decide to start censoring people on the board.
If this was a community forum, the decision to censor would be taken collectively, if at all. Forums are a great tool as they enable you to have interactive polls in which each registered member gets one vote.
Thanks for informing me of my hysteria - in my opinion I am positively euthymic!
[quote="Bob"]Carla - I quite agree that this thread is not the place for a discussion about politics. and my (Carla) quote " How about a proper political debate here instead of a verbal punch up? personally I think there are very few views about life that can be expressed that do not have a political bias - the honest thing is to declare your political bias and then we can have a proper debate. "
Bob how do you read into my quote that this is not the place for a discussion about politics? This is precisely what you are introducing with your singling out of anti war posters and not any of the other community creativity that I have seen around our dear Porty - including the half a sentence of poetry at Kings Rd roundabout, the boarded up shops, the 'Discount Carpet' shop, circus posters, slimming clubs, lost dogs, jumble sales, benefits, gigs, bands, nail bars you name it - do you only see what you want to see? or am I seeing things? I don't think so. The way to improve this is to revitalise our community and its shops - oppose large scale shopping developments that suck the life out of small shopping areas etc etc
My point is that as this is supposed to be a community forum, there's nothing wrong with a debate about politics providing that one train of political thought is not the only one that is considered right. I appreciate that the forum is run by volunteers, but it does receive money from the Community Council, which presumably means it should not favour any one particular grouping above another. (with the exception of racist, sexist, homophobic or disablist postings/organisations which I would hope none of us would want here and would be against the law anyway) so why is only one political party listed in the groups on the front page? and guess which one - it would be fairer to allow all groups to be listed, wouldn't it? or take off the one singled out for favour - I would prefer all political parties (except racist ones)to be on - and I agree with surrealist, it should not be up to one person to decide what is ok on this forum - a community forum should be run by a community and not by one person or a group of people from only one section of the community.
Bob how do you read into my quote that this is not the place for a discussion about politics? This is precisely what you are introducing with your singling out of anti war posters and not any of the other community creativity that I have seen around our dear Porty - including the half a sentence of poetry at Kings Rd roundabout, the boarded up shops, the 'Discount Carpet' shop, circus posters, slimming clubs, lost dogs, jumble sales, benefits, gigs, bands, nail bars you name it - do you only see what you want to see? or am I seeing things? I don't think so. The way to improve this is to revitalise our community and its shops - oppose large scale shopping developments that suck the life out of small shopping areas etc etc
My point is that as this is supposed to be a community forum, there's nothing wrong with a debate about politics providing that one train of political thought is not the only one that is considered right. I appreciate that the forum is run by volunteers, but it does receive money from the Community Council, which presumably means it should not favour any one particular grouping above another. (with the exception of racist, sexist, homophobic or disablist postings/organisations which I would hope none of us would want here and would be against the law anyway) so why is only one political party listed in the groups on the front page? and guess which one - it would be fairer to allow all groups to be listed, wouldn't it? or take off the one singled out for favour - I would prefer all political parties (except racist ones)to be on - and I agree with surrealist, it should not be up to one person to decide what is ok on this forum - a community forum should be run by a community and not by one person or a group of people from only one section of the community.
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Guest
Reluctant as I am to continue this discussion, which I would like to remind everyone is supposed to be about FLYPOSTING, both Carla and Surrealist have raised points that need to be addressed.
It's difficult to know where to start, but here goes:
Let's put an end to the conspiracy theories and paranoia that I detect in recent postings. The groups listings require to be updated, along with the 'What's On' page and much else besides. We are currently working on a new website that will make this much easier. As soon as this is ready to go I will happily deal with the backlog of information, including details of political groups Carla has supplied me with. In fact these groups were added at the time but the updated pages were lost when the server crashed. Ultimately we want to build a site where people can easily add their own listings, news items and information. Less work for me and a more interactive experience for you.
I administer and moderate the forum on behalf of Portobello Community Council. So far I have had to ban a total of 3 members. Two of these relate to recent libellous comments. In removing them promptly I probably saved the person(s) responsible from ending up on the wrong end of a lawsuit. The third was simply someone behaving in a tiresome and childish manner. Other than this I have not felt the need to remove or edit any posts, though I have moved the odd post in the interests of thread continuity. If any forum member has a problem with the way the board is moderated I would be pleased to hear from them.
Now, can we PLEASE get back to the subject of flyposting? If you want to discuss something else then please at least start a new thread.
It's difficult to know where to start, but here goes:
Fine, go ahead if it stops you from hijacking my thread about FLYPOSTING. The examples I photographed are just the ones I noticed. I confess I didn't venture as far as the Kings Road roundabout. I did see the circus posters but I thought they were posted from the inside. Perhaps I was wrong. In any case, please be assured that there is no political agenda here. I simply took photographs of examples of flyposting that I found on Portobello High Street.how about a political thread where we can really debate political issues and not second-hand through a debate about flyposting?
Let's put an end to the conspiracy theories and paranoia that I detect in recent postings. The groups listings require to be updated, along with the 'What's On' page and much else besides. We are currently working on a new website that will make this much easier. As soon as this is ready to go I will happily deal with the backlog of information, including details of political groups Carla has supplied me with. In fact these groups were added at the time but the updated pages were lost when the server crashed. Ultimately we want to build a site where people can easily add their own listings, news items and information. Less work for me and a more interactive experience for you.
I administer and moderate the forum on behalf of Portobello Community Council. So far I have had to ban a total of 3 members. Two of these relate to recent libellous comments. In removing them promptly I probably saved the person(s) responsible from ending up on the wrong end of a lawsuit. The third was simply someone behaving in a tiresome and childish manner. Other than this I have not felt the need to remove or edit any posts, though I have moved the odd post in the interests of thread continuity. If any forum member has a problem with the way the board is moderated I would be pleased to hear from them.
Now, can we PLEASE get back to the subject of flyposting? If you want to discuss something else then please at least start a new thread.
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Guest
Bob wrote:
Now, can we PLEASE get back to the subject of flyposting? If you want to discuss something else then please at least start a new thread.
Has anyone esle noticed the poster for Bryant Homes at the junction of Craigentinny Road/Seafield Road. Some wag has graffiti-ed "Homes 4 the homeless" on it.
Of course, I don't approve(!) but it did make me smile.
Not quite on-topic perhaps... but getting closer to it.
Last edited by Guest on 14 Mar 2004, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
Not exactly on-topic either, but I too like the idea of subverting the message and I differentiate between this and mindless graffiti. More of this sort of thing at http://adbusters.org/creativeresistance/
Congratulations on posting the 1000th message by the way!
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Surrealist
Bob
Good grief - you begin the thread by decrying "leftist" flyposters (and the anti-war message is actually adopted by many people who would laugh at being called leftist - see antiwar.com for example) - and you end the thread by a homage to, er, adbusters - the spiritual home of the political flyposter?
Have you ever thought of a career as a double-agent in a counter-intelligence agency (like Kim Philby, your job would be to hunt yourself!) as you seem to have a talent for being on two sides at once.........
Good grief - you begin the thread by decrying "leftist" flyposters (and the anti-war message is actually adopted by many people who would laugh at being called leftist - see antiwar.com for example) - and you end the thread by a homage to, er, adbusters - the spiritual home of the political flyposter?
Have you ever thought of a career as a double-agent in a counter-intelligence agency (like Kim Philby, your job would be to hunt yourself!) as you seem to have a talent for being on two sides at once.........
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Guest
I think adbusting is a very interesting concept. My bookshelf includes copies of ‘No Logo’ and ‘Fast Food Nation’ along with everything Michael Moore has written. It’s not difficult to work out where my sympathies lie. Nevertheless, I do not want Portobello High Street flyposted by anyone, irrespective of their political leanings. I don’t see any inconsistency in this.
So, how about a communal tolerance zone? And how about some volunteers to help clean up the mess? Any takers?
So, how about a communal tolerance zone? And how about some volunteers to help clean up the mess? Any takers?
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Guest
Just for the record, the photograph of the former carpet shop portrays posters advertising a James Connolly march. The circus posters were indeed sellotaped to the outside and will be easily removed next time I'm passing. I discovered recently that an elderly neighbour had flyposted a street lamp with a 'Say No to the Superstore' poster. I also know him well enough to know that he will remove it when it is no longer required.
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Surrealist
Read What It Says On The Tin
If there is talk of removing topics from this Forum Board then Favourite Takeaway should be the first to go. Why single them out? It's just free publicity.
I often wonder if the posters get larger portions next time they go in because they have flattered (and advertised) the establishment "on the computer". None of them ever say exactly how much their food cost either and when did sharing the same eating venue as Susan Deacon and Lawrence Marshall become something to broadcast to the community?
It has become a name-dropping, ....-licking topic and should be removed from the board long before any important political subject.
Takeaway the building at the Foot of Bath Street - is more like it.
p.s. That Surrealist really gets me going
I often wonder if the posters get larger portions next time they go in because they have flattered (and advertised) the establishment "on the computer". None of them ever say exactly how much their food cost either and when did sharing the same eating venue as Susan Deacon and Lawrence Marshall become something to broadcast to the community?
It has become a name-dropping, ....-licking topic and should be removed from the board long before any important political subject.
Takeaway the building at the Foot of Bath Street - is more like it.
p.s. That Surrealist really gets me going
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Surrealist
Re: Read What It Says On The Tin
Oo-er missus !!!!Carol wrote:
p.s. That Surrealist really gets me going
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Guest
OK, I have now officially given up trying to instill some thread discipline on this particular topic! You're just a bunch of tangential anarchists!
Carol, I don't think anyone is talking of removing topics. The 'Favourite Takeaway' thread, as the stats show, is one of our most popular and I think we need some lighter topics to balance the more serious stuff. Do you really think we could negotiate special rates for forum users in exchange for a mention? OK, here goes:
The 108 is the one we rate
The food is great
How about a discount mate?
Yep, that should do it - cut price singapore noodles all round! Or perhaps not.
Carol, I don't think anyone is talking of removing topics. The 'Favourite Takeaway' thread, as the stats show, is one of our most popular and I think we need some lighter topics to balance the more serious stuff. Do you really think we could negotiate special rates for forum users in exchange for a mention? OK, here goes:
The 108 is the one we rate
The food is great
How about a discount mate?
Yep, that should do it - cut price singapore noodles all round! Or perhaps not.