Kings Road teatime fights......

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 19 Apr 2005, 19:55

Went for a teatime stroll (5pm) with my kids tonight at the bottom of Kings Road and passed three of the teenagers from the Westbank estate that are becoming more trouble as they are getting older (if you stay there, you'll know the ones....).
As they passed us, one of them was going on about how there was 5 of them waiting for them at the top of the street. Oh well, appeared they had been fighting, and were outnumbered. Then I saw they were carrying very large hammers, and acting as if they were looking out for the other gang.
At this point, a man (late forties!) walked across from the Tides Inn with his t-shirt ripped, covered in blood and started talking to the boys. As we kept walking along the prom, a gang of 5 (unknown to me) boys carrying baseball bats and sticks appeared from the Pitz car park heading towards the Tides Inn area, and then went into the estate.
We phoned the police as there were children on the prom and didn't like what was going on. The police arrived minutes later as the five boys ran east along the prom, with the police car chasing.
This is a very alarming incident which appeared to originate in the Tides Inn area (or indeed, in the pub), as I said, the bloody guy walked from the Tides Inn.

Did anyone else see this or heard anything?

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 19 Apr 2005, 20:37

Welcome, Portyallmydays.

This sounds absolutely terrifying, and especially when you're out with your kids. Do let us know if you hear anymore.

Bellybabe

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:01

The police have been much in evidence in the Prom area in the evenings at the weekend recently specifically on the lookout for ********s (to quote (or not!) one we know), but who'd have thought that teenagers would be up to this sort of badness at 5 on a Tuesday evening?! Beggars belief.

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:13

Is that at the Kings Road/Westank end of the prom?

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:14

Actually, I had a chat with one of the community officers last week, and I said it seemed that problems with gangs of kids had got worse here lately, and asked if he thought that was true. He said yes, it's been absolutely terrible lately. And his advice was to just keep on phoning...

Not very reassuring.

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:15

I still think the origin of the trouble was a fight in the Tides Inn, and somehow the teenagers have got involved. Still very worrying. And to think, there was no trouble like this when the Tides was closed.......

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:19

Better watch out - now that this is a Punch tavern you might meet someone armed with a panini. I'm sure it wasn't blood, just salsa.

I'm just not buying any of these stories of hammers, blood and karaoke. Sue Allen said she spent money on that bar and I expect it to be a better "localpub" as she put it.

So come on people, let's stop all being so negative!!

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:25

Dadaist wrote:this is a Punch tavern

How apt.

Jamesie · Post by **Jamesie** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:47

I heard this was all staged and filmed as a training video for new Punch licensees in dealing with "problem" premises?

maureen mclaughlin · Post by **maureen mclaughlin** » 19 Apr 2005, 23:45

I did see a lot of teenager hanging around by the Tides Inn tonight, some thing they have taken to doing since the pub reopened but I did not witness this incident. If I had I would have contacted the police also, this must have been upsetting for you and your children. For whatever reason many young people seam to have taken to hanging around this aria. They can be a bit noise but I have not seen any thing that was concerning. It dose raise concerns as to how this pub is being managed. This sort of incident should be highlighted to the licensing committee if it dose stem from the pub. Since this pub reopened, KingÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Road has not been a nice place to live at times, as it seams to attract a people who enjoy fighting after a good drink. particularly at closing time.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 20 Apr 2005, 16:58

Just read in the Financial Times that the Company has changed its name to 'Punch, Kick & Baseball Bat Taverns'

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 02 May 2005, 20:20

Anyone know what the latest problems (about half an hour ago) at the bottom of Kings Road/Prom/Westbank Estate? Two panda cars and a Police van came along with lights and sirens down Kings rd and along the prom just after one of my neighours escorted about 20-30 kids from the estate (including the kids from the estate). A lot of activity, with a police man and woman walking through the estate apparantly looking for the known teenagers house...... seems a lot of police presence for some kid trouble! Anyone else see or hear?

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 05 May 2005, 23:30

It was right outside my daughter's window. About 20 odd teenagers, some with belts and maybe poolcues/sticks getting stuck into another group (again!!!).

teddygirl · Post by **teddygirl** » 07 May 2005, 20:27

Have just heard that a boy who my daughter knows was attacked along at the Tides last night and is in hospital with a fractured skull. Sounds like things are getting way out of hand along there.
I think I would prefer it if the Figgate Whins never reopens,it's a bit too close to home if similar behaviour is carried out there.

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 07 May 2005, 21:16

Sorry to hear about your daughters friend.......very sad indeed. Was he in the pub or is he a teenager from the area? I never heard a thing last night (I thought it was a quiet night for this area) and I done live very far from the pub.

teddygirl · Post by **teddygirl** » 07 May 2005, 22:55

I'm not sure if he was in the pub but that was the impression I got. She (daughter) only heard from another friend so doesn't know the full details.
I'm just glad that she doesn't hang out along there.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 13 May 2005, 20:36

Make that Pittville Street!! We've just had four polis cars including a doggy polis car zipping about the Prom and Joppa in all directions with extremely young looking polis pointing in all directions then b*****ing off and refusing to tell a member of the public what was going on but that all is was OK.

Anyone any clues????

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 13 May 2005, 20:44

Ohmigod - this is serious and I'd be careful if you are out and about- the police were armed, according to a neighbour!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 13 May 2005, 21:06

I was at a meeting on Tuesday at which the police officer present stated that the youth problem in Portobello was currently completely out of order and the worst he had seen in this area. Gangs from Leith and Portobello are organising fights and others are now joining in, some armed with knives and hammers.

His advice was for local residents to complain and to keep complaining until sufficient resources are made available to deal with the problem.

I should add that this was a meeting to discuss recreational provision for teenagers in the area and that it was recognised that the problems are caused by a very small minority of young people.

teddygirl · Post by **teddygirl** » 13 May 2005, 21:28

We've just arrived home and the police are still out and about but didn't see any youngsters. They've obviously scarpered. It's more worrying when you have teenagers yourself and every time they go out you don't relax until they come home again. We moan about giving them lifts everywhere but at least you know they reach their destination safely.

nicky · Post by **nicky** » 13 May 2005, 22:36

Geez this is NOT good. we've been told the same about dealing with yobbish behaviour bu the police (Tony Blair in a hoody???...never) ie. please report it, report it and keep on reporting it. But, it's rather hard to believe that when acting in isolation.

Can we do anything else...ie write, campaign etc (and no Bob, that wasn't an offer)?

What's the story?

N

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 14 May 2005, 09:05

I'm sure that people often feel helpless as individuals in these situations. I think what we have to understand is that the police officers at Portobello feel equally frustrated at times because they simply don't have the resources to deal with these problems effectively.

The Police Inspector at Portobello can request more officers to help out, but resources are finite and he needs stats to back up his bid. So, in the end it's a numbers game. That's why the police will always encourage local residents to complain. Lots of calls complaining about youth disturbance help their case to obtain the support they need to tackle the problem.

Ultimately it's a question of whether or not, as a community, we are prepared to accept this type of behaviour as 'normal', and in this case silence betoketh consent.

We should also be complaining bitterly to Maureen and Lawrence. What are they doing about it? How can we hope to promote Portobello when it is virtually a no-go area on a Friday and Saturday night? Copy your emails to Susan and Gavin and make a huge fuss about it, because that's the only way to get action. Write to the Community Council or come along to the next meeting. Post a copy of your correspondence on this thread.

We should remember too, that there are lots of decent kids out there who are too frightened to walk in their own streets and we owe it to them to resolve this issue.

There are other things we could/should be doing, like re-convening the Problem Solving Partnership we had running a couple of years back, but it all starts with individuals deciding that they are not prepared to tolerate what is happening and picking up that phone and/or writing that email. Complain or condone - that's our options.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 14 May 2005, 09:46

From: "Bob Jefferson" <r.jefferson@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: "Lawrence Marshall" <lawrence.marshall@edinburgh.gov.uk>; "Maureen
Child" <maureen.child@edinburgh.gov.uk>
Cc: "Norman Ward" <norman.ward@lbp.pnn.police.uk>; "Susan Deacon"
<Susan.Deacon.msp@scottish.parliament.uk>; "Gavin Strang"
<gillana@parliament.uk>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 9:39 AM
Subject: Youth disturbances in Portobello

Lawrence, Maureen

I am very concerned to hear recent reports of organised gang fights between youths from Leith, Portobello (and elsewhere) taking place on weekend evenings on the Promenade. From all accounts, the situation appears to be completely out of control with weapons such as knives and hammers being used. There is at least one reported case of a fractured skull and the community discussion forum currently makes grim reading on this issue.

I don't want to appear alarmist but it seems clear that the local police do not have sufficient resources to deal with this problem effectively and I would urge you to do everything within your power to ensure that the new Inspector is given the support he needs.

When so many of us are working hard to promote Portobello as a great place to live, work and visit, we simply cannot afford to have a situation where the streets become no-go areas at certain times of day.

We shouldn't forget that there are lots of decent kids living locally who are afraid to go out as well. Interestingly, many of those who completed the recent survey on provision for young people in the area are requesting CCTV for their own protection.

Resurrecting the Problem Solving Partnership might be one way to tackle the problem, but we seem to talk endlessly on this subject without making much of a difference. We need police officers down here in large numbers, we need CCTV and we need to restore order to our streets.

Regards

Bob Jefferson

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 14 May 2005, 10:39

Bob Jefferson wrote:Ultimately it's a question of whether or not, as a community, we are prepared to accept this type of behaviour as 'normal', ........

Got it in one there Bob.

sconegrrl · Post by **sconegrrl** » 14 May 2005, 14:07

This is really worrying. I think that this has to be tackled asap as when the school holidays and even longer days come, it will likely get worse. Bizarre that they would choose to cause aggro here when there is a Police Station on the doorstep.

I don't want to see all teens being essentially criminalised or having their freedom restricted... I expect them to hang around in groups and maybe be a bit noisy at times, but the kind of violence that's being described here is very scary, especially when it's other young people getting hurt or being threatened. I'd be well up for emailing/phoning if I see or hear anything.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 14 May 2005, 18:44

I would imagine that, as usual, there will be a handful of ringleaders who need to be identified - on both sides (the locals and the non locals). The real problem is getting people to speak up and point them out. Difficult.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 15 May 2005, 10:55

Epykat wrote:I would imagine that, as usual, there will be a handful of ringleaders who need to be identified - on both sides (the locals and the non locals). The real problem is getting people to speak up and point them out. Difficult.

I think you are wrong E. The Police know exactly who the ringleaders are but as you say getting people to speak up is difficult. I had a situation a couple of weeks ago, my property was damaged, we knew who it was, the Police attended, there were witnesses who did speak up (I wasn't there). Even given all of that i was still reluctant to press charges.Fearful of a backlash on the kids or the house at a later date. (I stll am)

It was only when i discovered the depth of the threats that these people were making, my resolve hardened. Charges have been made. We will see.

isapdcm · Post by **isapdcm** » 15 May 2005, 20:43

Porty, very best of luck. I've been a witness 3 times since coming to Portobello - worst was when I was a witness against someone who had been practising trampolining on someone's head at 4 o'clock on a sunny Saturday afternoon outside the delectable Figgate Whins. Nothing as sinister as what you are dealing with but very stressful nevertheless. The (seemingly standard) couple of postponements for background reports - which you don't know about until after you've been waiting in the witness room for an hour or two - don't exactly help the stress levels.
I also had a run in with the ubiquitous yobs a few months back when they were using my car as a park bench. They were very understanding about my protests - providing a car wash (with gob) and a minor door panel re-modelling. Thankfully after I called the police (who did turn up promptly and tour the vicinity) they have not been seen around here since. Whenever something like this happens my gut reaction is always 'never again - I'll mind my own business next time' - that's crap - stick in.

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 16 May 2005, 14:28

An horrific story from tonight's EN, not too far from here...

Man battered to death by yobs

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 16 May 2005, 14:51

isapdcm wrote:Porty, very best of luck. I've been a witness 3 times since coming to Portobello - worst was when I was a witness against someone who had been practising trampolining on someone's head at 4 o'clock on a sunny Saturday afternoon outside the delectable Figgate Whins. Nothing as sinister as what you are dealing with but very stressful nevertheless. The (seemingly standard) couple of postponements for background reports - which you don't know about until after you've been waiting in the witness room for an hour or two - don't exactly help the stress levels.
I also had a run in with the ubiquitous yobs a few months back when they were using my car as a park bench. They were very understanding about my protests - providing a car wash (with gob) and a minor door panel re-modelling. Thankfully after I called the police (who did turn up promptly and tour the vicinity) they have not been seen around here since. Whenever something like this happens my gut reaction is always 'never again - I'll mind my own business next time' - that's crap - stick in.

Thanks for the sentiment and understanding Isapcdcm(Finally got it right). I have had similar court experience it is very, very frustrating. Ive heard or seen no more of the youths in question, long may that continue.

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 16 May 2005, 15:12

I walked past there a few weeks ago after a few games of pool at the Newyorker at Meadowbank, and remember a couple of groups of teenagers hanging about just opposite the squares. Its amazing where you walk when you've had a lot to drink (as I'd had that night!), but thinking in the morning how lucky I might have been. I would have been bricking it if I had to walk past there sober!!

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 16 May 2005, 19:07

I think the chances of the murderers being connected to what's gone on down here are quite high. An absolute tragedy for all the families concerned but one that we were just waiting to happen, and in fact discussed at the meeting last Tuesday. It could have been any one of us had we been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 16 May 2005, 21:17

The murder on Saturday is totally shocking. Its hard to see how this yob culture can be stopped. These kids just don't seem to know right from wrong. It's not just a case of them being bored teenagers. We were bored too at their age. It has to start at home but that assumes that the parents know better or even care

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 16 May 2005, 21:21

Now we have to bear the rumour mill in mind but I have it on good authority that the person charged was part of the crowd that regularly cause trouble in the Tides Inn area.

This is a tragedy, quite a few lives will be ruined by this.

foxy · Post by **foxy** » 16 May 2005, 21:56

Porty wrote: This is a tragedy, quite a few lives will be ruined by this.

Not to mention the poor innocent guy who was killed and his family who have lost their son