Superstore - New Petrol Station - Parking - New Access

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 May 2006, 12:39

Dadaist wrote:It
You're right, Porty, I'd love to know who the PCATS committee were but at the end of the day, I probably know most of them anyway.

They didn't hide.

I am not suggesting that anyone hid and I appreciate Gemini's point about the PCATS committe being a fluid group during a long and hard campaign. My specific interest is in the post-campaign PCATS committee refered to here, in Stephen Hawkins post of April 7th 2006:

Stephen Hawkins wrote:You will remember how much we needed our own consultants at the Public Inquiry last March to argue from the communityâ€™s point of view. The PCATS committee believe it would be beneficial to make use of our own consultant when the Master Plan is being produced. A consultant who knows planning guidance would be able to advise us better of the advantages or pitfalls of a particular proposal. .........
Letâ€™s look forward to getting quality housing on this site that enhances Portobello.

I would like to know the names of the individuals concerned am i being unreasonable?

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 09 May 2006, 12:46

Porty wrote:
Dadaist wrote:It
You're right, Porty, I'd love to know who the PCATS committee were but at the end of the day, I probably know most of them anyway.

They didn't hide.
I am not suggesting that anyone hid

I'm not suggesting you're suggesting anyone hid. My "hide" reference was a forward link to the hiding hiders of the pro-supermarket posse, who hid so well nobody knew they were there, like the old ladies in the lavatory.

Brenda · Post by **Brenda** » 09 May 2006, 12:52

Can I suggest that, if Porty wants to know the names of the PCATS committee, he should ask Stephen Hawkins. I believe he lives opposite him! Then either he or SH could post the info. on this thread.
Sorry if that sounds too logical!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 09 May 2006, 12:58

Brenda wrote:Can I suggest that, if Porty wants to know the names of the PCATS committee, he should ask Stephen Hawkins. I believe he lives opposite him! Then either he or SH could post the info. on this thread.
Sorry if that sounds too logical!

Yes. He was just trying to be helpful in re-posting my question though.

Porty - I think the question-mark ball is in Mr Hawkins' court now and you should cease and desist from further askings, as I have.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 May 2006, 13:09

Brenda wrote:Can I suggest that, if Porty wants to know the names of the PCATS committee, he should ask Stephen Hawkins. I believe he lives opposite him! Then either he or SH could post the info. on this thread.
Sorry if that sounds too logical!

Brenda it sounds totally logical and reasonable. So much so that I did ask Stephen in a phone conversation on Wed April 26th and he was not inclined to answer, other than to say that the PCATS committee was a fluid group that changed throughout the campaign. Which as I've previously said is totally understandable. (Although I'm assuming bank signatories and other core people did not change)

My question related and relates to what I presume is the current PCATS commitee mentioned in Stephen's latest communications. Namely, those that attended the PCATS commitee meeting and believed that it would be a "good idea" for Superstore Campaign funds to be spent on a different purpose.

(I do not intend asking Stephen repeatedly, I have asked him once already)

ali · Post by **ali** » 09 May 2006, 13:12

Gemini wrote:.................... I believe that 97% of this Community were represented by PCATS..............

What!?!? You actually believe that do you??

Now perhaps our readers can see what I mean about people unthinkingly and blatantly re-writing history.

Not 95% or 99% but exactly 97%!!!!!!!!

How do you know that??

I would quite like to question the integrity of that statement but it will probably mean sustaining a broadside from Dada who doesn't like people asking questions on a public forum.

You didn't just make it up, did you ?

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 09 May 2006, 13:25

ali wrote:....I would quite like to question the integrity of that statement but it will probably mean sustaining a broadside from Dada who doesn't like people asking questions on a public forum....?

Well said Ali. In the same way that asking questions about "substantiation/data integrity/justification etc" appears to frustrate Dadaist, I find myself equally frustrated when figures such as the '97%' are plucked out the air and used as some sort of justification for a specific point of view.

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 09 May 2006, 13:39

Stephen Hawkins wrote:You will remember how much we needed our own consultants at the Public Inquiry last March to argue from the communityâ€™s point of view. The PCATS committee believe it would be beneficial to make use of our own consultant when the Master Plan is being produced. A consultant who knows planning guidance would be able to advise us better of the advantages or pitfalls of a particular proposal. .........

I would like to know the names of the individuals concerned am i being unreasonable?
Think you know most of us by now? however for clarification, have a look at the PCATS Calendar

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 09 May 2006, 13:46

Gemini wrote:
Stephen Hawkins wrote:You will remember how much we needed our own consultants at the Public Inquiry last March to argue from the communityâ€™s point of view. The PCATS committee believe it would be beneficial to make use of our own consultant when the Master Plan is being produced. A consultant who knows planning guidance would be able to advise us better of the advantages or pitfalls of a particular proposal. .........
Think you know most of us by now? however for clarification, have a look at the PCATS Calendar
Ok thanks I will. I acknowledge what you said previously about the committee constantly changing as the campaign unfolded. Can you confirm that the committee identified on the calendar is identiical to the PCATS committee that Stephen mentions above? Which, is my specific interest.

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 09 May 2006, 20:23

[quote PORTY]Can you confirm that the committee identified on the calendar is identiical to the PCATS committee that Stephen mentions above? Which, is my specific interest.[/quote][/quote]

Just as a matter of interest Porty, why do you want/need to know the names of the PCATS group

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 10 May 2006, 13:36

Gemini wrote:
Porty wrote:Can you confirm that the committee identified on the calendar is identiical to the PCATS committee that Stephen mentions above? Which, is my specific interest.
Just as a matter of interest Porty, why do you want/need to know the names of the PCATS group

Gemini, I dont want to know the names of the PCATS "group". I want to know the names of the PCATS Committee that Stephen Hawkins mentioned in his pen-ultimate communication with us on April 7th 2006. I also want their contact details so that I can communicate with them directly. PCATS have collected around Â£23,000 of community money, which is a huge responsibility. Don't you thiink we have a right to know?

And before I get accused or shot down in flames for multiple-asking. Here is the story so far:

I ask Stephen Hawkins verbally-he tells me it's a changing group but mentions no names

Dada on POL asks Stephen "Who exactly are the PCATs committee"- no response.

Gemini, is not asked but kindly steps into assist, directing me to the PCATS calendar. Which is in itself a bit different from a straight answer. Especially having previously stated that it was a fluid group or words to that effect and the calendar is almost 2 years old

I ask Gemini are those identified on the PCATS calendar are the identical members of the PCATS commitee that Stephen mentioned in his email.

Gemini asks me why I want/need to know?

Personally, I don't understand why the information is not public information on demand?

Edit-to avert multiple-questioning reprimand.

ali · Post by **ali** » 10 May 2006, 15:37

I've been mulling over this concept of a rolling, everchanging, amorphous committee, never fixed at any one point in time or space.....................................very strange indeed.

I don't believe I've ever heard of such a thing before.

I'm sorry. I've tried to resist Dada, but I just can't stop myself...............aaaargh!!!!! Noooooooooo!!!!Â£$$Â£%Â£Â£! I'm just going to have to ask these questions...........................

Did (or do ) PCATS have a written down constitution?
How is their committee elected? How many people are on the committee? How often do they meet? Are there minutes of their meetings?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 11 May 2006, 09:41

Moved this post over here as its more relevant:

Gemini wrote: As I am a part of the PCATS Group/Committee whatever you want to call it. Why do you want personal contact details?

Were you one of the PCATS Committee that Stephen mentioned in his communication on April 7th? And if so who were the others?

I have already told you why I want personal contact details: so that I can communicate with people directly and as individuals. To be frank I would expect that if any member of the community wanted to know the names and contact details of PCATS committe members then it shoud be provided without hesitation or question.

Gemini wrote:I suspect the reason why you started this thread, was/is to malign PCATS,
and you know that this IS THE TRUTH.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I started the poll thread to address what I believe was an inadequate consultation process and a potentially unlawful use of community money. I'm not trying to be destructive, I am trying to be constructive. I have put a proposal to Stephen Hawkins which I believe is a reasonable and good way forward. As a member of the PCATS committee, I hope he has shared that proposal with you. If not, I will be happy to publish it here.

ali · Post by **ali** » 11 May 2006, 10:40

ali wrote:Did (or do ) PCATS have a written down constitution?
How is their committee elected? How many people are on the committee? How often do they meet? Are there minutes of their meetings?

The silence is deafening.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 12 May 2006, 06:56

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=875572004

The seaside resort, which skirts the capital, always was a close-knit community, but it has surpassed itself in unanimity in its opposition to plans by Edinburgh-based Duddingston House Properties to build an enormous supermarket on the site of the former ScottishPower headquarters on Portobello High Street.

It's such a shame that the pro-supermarket posse were burrowed so far underground that even the Scotsman indulged itself in malicious revisionism.

ali · Post by **ali** » 12 May 2006, 07:54

Dadaist wrote:http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=875572004

malicious revisionism.

hahaha - excellent!!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 12 May 2006, 10:54

Dadaist wrote:http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=875572004

The seaside resort, which skirts the capital, always was a close-knit community, but it has surpassed itself in unanimity in its opposition to plans by Edinburgh-based Duddingston House Properties to build an enormous supermarket on the site of the former ScottishPower headquarters on Portobello High Street.
It's such a shame that the pro-supermarket posse were burrowed so far underground that even the Scotsman indulged itself in malicious revisionism.

Well here is what Ali had to say on this thread on April 2nd 2004 so I hope you are not pointing the finger at the wee soul. (and BTW he wasn't the first)

ali wrote:I've kept silent up to now (mainly because I can get a nasty allergic reaction to self appointed community representatives who think they have a hot line to the feelings of an entire community and because I'm wary of the backlash which will inevitably hit me) because I can see both advantages and disadvantages to the superstore. However , Ned's post echoed a few of my views so here goes.

For me, the pros outweigh the cons and believe me, there are plenty of people in Porty who can't wait for a "superstore" to be built. What about the poor, the pensioners, the carless?
You people with cars have the choice to be able to pop up to Asda or Safeway.
Where do I get fresh tarragon for my roast chicken on a Sunday - Not Scotmid that's for sure!!!!!
If Scotmid was YOUR only option what would your attitude be??

What if the superstore brought people IN to Portobello??
Local businesses claim to offer quality goods and services.
If they can't keep their share of the market, when they are never done boasting about the quality of their product and their local service then perhaps they deserve to go to the wall. It's called "Capitalism". They should have some faith in their product. If they're good enough, they'll survive. If not then they go to the wall. Thats the way it works.
REAL entrepreneurs would embrace the opportunity.

I know (because I've spoken to them) that there are other people out there who think like me that given the present nature of the planning laws Porty is probably on a hiding to nothing with regard to this application.

If the superstore does goes ahead then the "Say No to the Superstore" campaign can start to put pressure on the council and the developers to mitigate some of the more serious environmental effects you doom-merchants are predicting.

Stephen McIntyre · Post by **Stephen McIntyre** » 12 May 2006, 11:37

ali wrote:
ali wrote:Did (or do ) PCATS have a written down constitution?
How is their committee elected? How many people are on the committee? How often do they meet? Are there minutes of their meetings?
The silence is deafening.

It is deafening. I have been getting stick for maligning the PCATS committee when all that I am asking for on POL and privately is the names and contact details of the members of that committee.

I want to share with you all the proposal that I put to both Stephen Hawkins who I know does represent PCATS and Robert Gatliff the chairman of Portobello Community Council. I have attempted to engage the latter in a third-party role which I believe is neccessary. To date I have heard from neither party although to be fair on Robert he may or may not have collected the two emails that I sent him? I have shared this proposal with a number of other people and I have a number of supportive emails from those that share my concerns. I will post the proposal on the PCATS Poll thread, which has had a low response.

I would appreciate any feedback, positive or negative, for or against and if someone has a better solution a tweak will also be welcomed

Tuesday, 02 May 2006

Memo to: Stephen Hawkins and PCATS Committee

From: Stephen McIntyre, The Mortgage People

Subject: PCATS funds

Stephen,

Further to our meeting at my office on April 28th 2006 and our exchange of views, I thought it valuable to detail my suggested strategy for the remaining PCATS funds, which were raised on the following basis:

â€œPortobello Campaign Against The Superstore is a group of people who have got together to fight the proposed Superstore on the Scottish Power Site. The Group was set up by residents, following on from a successful petition started by traders. The Group is not aligned to any political party and anyone who is opposed to the Superstore Development on this site is welcome to join. Anyone who is committed to opposing the Planned Superstore can receive information from the Campaign..â€

Cleopas · Post by **Cleopas** » 09 Jun 2006, 20:46

So the school won't be going where Scottish Electricity had its HQ in Baileyfield ... where my auntie lives. No ... they're planning to build 650 new houses there. She's not at all happy! A lot of houses there will have compulsory purchase orders too!

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 10 Jun 2006, 09:33

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 10 Jun 2006, 10:08

I've moved this to the Superstore thread, which seems more appropriate. Cleopas, do you have any more info about this? I was aware that the developer was negotiating with Baileyfield residents to purchase their homes and it sounded like they were getting a pretty good deal, but compulsory purchase?

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 10 Jun 2006, 14:47

Bob Jefferson wrote:I've moved this to the Superstore thread, which seems more appropriate. Cleopas, do you have any more info about this? I was aware that the developer was negotiating with Baileyfield residents to purchase their homes and it sounded like they were getting a pretty good deal, but compulsory purchase?

Wrong on all accounts - who is feeding you this tripe?

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 10 Jun 2006, 16:18

Well what is going on?

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 10 Jun 2006, 18:53

I heard something along those lines as well

Does anyone know what is going on

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 10 Jun 2006, 19:12

Izzie wrote:I heard something along those lines as well

Does anyone know what is going on

A colleague of ours has had a letter from BL offering to buy their house ..........so not ALL tripe, then.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 10 Jun 2006, 19:53

Gemini wrote:Wrong on all accounts - who is feeding you this tripe?

As one of the residents concerned, I'm sure you could clarify this. The story I heard, from one of your neighbours, was that you were being offered more than market value, which doesn't sound too bad for properties that, according to your own posts, suffer from subsidence. I accept that this may not be true, in which case I'm sure you can correct me.

This post was moderated

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 10 Jun 2006, 21:16

Bob Jefferson wrote:
Gemini wrote:Wrong on all accounts - who is feeding you this tripe?
As one of the residents concerned, I'm sure you could clarify this. The story I heard, from one of your neighbours, was that you were being offered more than market value, which doesn't sound too bad for properties that, according to your own posts, suffer from subsidence. I accept that this may not be true, in which case I'm sure you can correct me.

Apart from it being none of anybody's business, its not happening!
We have not heard anything about compulsory purchase so another
load of tripe...

This post was edited

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 10 Jun 2006, 21:26

What's not happening?

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 10 Jun 2006, 21:31

Is that BL want to buy the houses or the compulsory purchase a load of tripe

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 13 Jun 2006, 23:04

Izzie wrote:Is that BL want to buy the houses or the compulsory purchase a load of tripe

All a load of tripe.

Post by **wangi** » 13 Jun 2006, 23:06

Gemini wrote:All a load of tripe.

You're being very constructive here. Why not educate people as to what the situation really is?

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 13 Jun 2006, 23:19

wangi wrote:
Gemini wrote:All a load of tripe.
You're being very constructive here. Why not educate people as to what the situation really is?

As far as BL and BR, there is NO situation - repeat No situation, nothing zilch zero end of story...

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 14 Jun 2006, 10:06

BL have met with the residents of Baileyfield Road haven't they. I remember commenting at the time that was a decent things to do. What was disussed, hope I'm not beiing too personal.

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 14 Jun 2006, 12:18

Porty wrote:BL have met with the residents of Baileyfield Road haven't they. I remember commenting at the time that was a decent things to do. What was disussed, hope I'm not beiing too personal.

How close the new development would be to the existing cottages,
and if Porty would be up for arranging mortgages

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 14 Jun 2006, 12:21

Mortgages are no problem. How close will they be?

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

Superstore - New Petrol Station - Parking - New Access

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