New Portobello High School- Where and how?

[Alison Connelly]

..

[Tom Ballantine]

For the avoidance of doubt the submission I made to the council was different from the written submission sent as the time for deputations was cut from 10 mins to 5 mins a day or so before and I had to answer the new point of the suggestion from ppag that the golf course be excluded from the consultation .
My impression was most of the ppag supporters leaving took the letter.I think Jackie had offered a copy .

[Stephen McIntyre]

Just for clarification, would PFANS assert that Portobello High School is in a very poor state and requires to be replaced immediately?

As you know, its not possible for any individual supporter of PFANS to clarify what the groups assertion may or may not be regarding the "immediate replacement" of the school. The only thing I can suggest to assist you is to perhaps look at a publication that was sanctioned by the group and presented as a representation of our assertion. Why not try Tom's submission to the full Edinburgh Council? Here's an extract:


Conclusion.
I have not gone into the detailed facts of this situation as presented in the councilreport and submission from Portobello High School because I believe they speak for themselves. What brought the urgency of the situation home to me along with the reports was the discovery that when Portobello High School was put forward for “PPPâ€

[Epykat]

An article from today's 'Evening News'

Why this needed knocked down a decade ago...

Strange . A high profile, Councillor type person of this Parish and I spent a fair bit of time on the sealed off floor today . Had to hang on tight though in case we blew off.....

Male or Female

Male. But rest assured his visit had nothing to do with this debate!

[Bob Jefferson]

From the EN Letters Page, 9 May 2006:

Build a new high school on current Portobello site

[seanie]

If you'd read the feasibility study for St John's, Seannie, you would have realised that the refurbishment included reconfiguration of the 12 45m2 classrooms into 8 67.5m2 classrooms, as the current partitions are not supporting walls, and re-configuration is relatively simple

That reduces the number of classrooms by a third. You’d need to make up the shortfall with more classrooms, along with ones to replace the temporary units, on what is already a constrained site. I’ve no doubt it’s possible. Whether it’s desirable is another matter.

I go back to Portobello High School. Most of my comments have been primarily concerned with it because, to my mind, it’s the bigger problem in almost every respect. I can see some advantages in linking their redevelopment together but it’s by no means essential.

When it comes to PHS I’ve been pretty dismissive of the idea of utilising the existing site. But at the same time I’ve repeatedly acknowledged that it would be possible. Possibility is not the issue. But the idea is essentially crap. The site’s too small, any replacement would be hugely compromised in terms of quality & space, and you’d have the huge disruption and cost of an extended decant.

It really isn’t a great idea. The only circumstances in which you’d choose it is in the absence of alternatives. Given a clear problem that’d inevitably deteriorate further, with no other choice, I’d go down that route. It’d be the least worse option. Crap, but less crap than doing nothing.

That’s pretty much the circumstances surrounding PP2.

But we’re in a new situation. There’s an alternative on the table which renders redevelopment on site dreadful by comparison, particularly given the funding realities. The purchase of the site up at Brunstane allows for relocation of the golf-course, and the potential for a new site that is certainly viable in planning terms, and may be viable in terms of public opinion. It would allow for a school to modern standards, on a decent sized site with playing fields, and would avoid a decant.

What you think an extended decant would do to the intake at PHS?

How many parents would consider sending their little darlings private then?

But back to my point, the possibilities for redeveloping the schools are ultimately governed by reality. What's possible. But that can change and just because somethings possible doesn't make it equally viable.

At present there are no viable brownfield sites. Maybe a few years down the line there will be, and then again maybe not. As things stand we have a possible solution that, at least in the narrow terms of a new school, is vastly superior to rebuilding on site. Whether that outweighs other considerations is obviously a matter of dispute, but I think that simple point is pretty much unarguable.

So not only is the building in good condition, but the proposed refurbishment could turn it into one which is also fit- for-purpose.

Thank you for confirming that St John’s is currently not fit-for-purpose, as per my original contention.

[seanie]

Just for clarification, would PFANS assert that Portobello High School is in a very poor state and requires to be replaced immediately?

I've no idea.

But I would point out that not much happens "immediately" in construction.

The process of creating a new PHS would probably take a minimum of about 4 years, with everything running smoothly. You could add a couple of years to that easily with complications.

If you wait until the school really is on its last legs before starting that process then children could be faced with spending all their secondary schooling in a seriously sub-standard building or decanted into temporary units.

[Franck]

Thats a great photo, I'd quite like a larger copy of that for my hoose.

Anyway, I've only posted once on this thread, and I stated I was all for the school/housing on the golfie. Looking at that photo though, I'm swaying toward the freightliner yard behind it.I know its not as straight forward, with issues of accessabilty and costings, but if the community is going to build a new school(s) to last a sensible duration, then ways round funding should be sought.

I'd prefer it if the current PHS land along with say, The Jewel and the Quarry Park were sold to fund the building of the high school and St. Johns stayed on its current site along with maybe the well utilised tennis courts PHS have.Surely the council can find monies for the primary if the community as a whole fund the high school by giving up a couple of parks in the area.

I really believe this is all about give and take, every side must be willing to compromise.

[Stephen McIntyre]

Action Points from Last Weeks Council Meeting

City of Edinburgh Council 4 May 2006

Portobello High School and St John’s Primary School – Replacement Premises

Decision

1) To note the contents of the joint report by the Directors of Children and Families and City Development.

2) To note that a Project Board had been set up to examine the issues and deliver the project.

3) To note that in 2003/2004 a proposal for rebuilding both schools on their existing sites had been submitted to the Scottish Executive as part of the PPP2 bid.

4) To investigate the possibility of using the greenfield sites at Holyrood, the Jewel and Lismore as well as Portobello Park.

5) To ask the Directors to report back on the cost of purchasing the brownfield sites identified in their report.

6) To ensure that the review commanded the trust of interested parties, to instruct the Director of Children and Families in addition to the options outlined in the report:

a) to obtain the report of an independent architect into the possibility of rebuilding Portobello High School on its existing site or the current combined sites of Portobello High School and St John’s;

b) to report on the experience of the users of the multi-floor new build school at St Thomas of Aquin’s;

c) to report on the option of locating a new St John’s Primary School alongside the Holy Rood High School at Cavalry Park.

d) to report on the option of locating a new St John’s at another suitable site;

e) to further investigate the possibilities of the Seafield and other brownfield sites, given the level of local concern at the use of greenfield sites;

f) to ensure that the consultation report contained a full range of options with detailed evidence to support comments made on each option;

g) to provide findings from a survey of available literature on the optimum size for schools.

7) To investigate any other configuration that would enhance the educational provision and/or contribute to the cost of building a new secondary school in Portobello.

In order to ensure proper control over council capital assets, to instruct the Director of City Development to report on whether there were other sites in the east of the city owned by the Council or its companies that could be developed to release a capital receipt to finance new campuses for Portobello High School and St John’s Primary School.

9) To note the intention to present a fully developed report, requesting permission to consult, to the Council in August 2006.

10) To note the proposed timescale for the statutory consultation process to commence in September 2006.

11) To consider the need to extend the report development and consultation period stages at the Council meeting in August 2006.

[Porty]

Thats a great photo, I'd quite like a larger copy of that for my hoose.

A nice PM to Wangi would probably net you the prize.

I really believe this is all about give and take, every side must be willing to compromise.

I agree wholeheartedly,

[Dave Connelly]

Thank you for confirming that St John’s is currently not fit-for-purpose, as per my original contention.

You haven't read the feasability studies, Have you

[Dave Connelly]

For the avoidance of doubt the submission I made to the council was different from the written submission sent as the time for deputations was cut from 10 mins to 5 mins a day or so before and I had to answer the new point of the suggestion from ppag that the golf course be excluded from the consultation .

Any chance of having a look at the other one please

[seanie]

Thank you for confirming that St John’s is currently not fit-for-purpose, as per my original contention.

You haven't read the feasability studies, Have you

No but I will.

I've said repeatedly that I know little about the schools directly.

Would repeating myself a few more times help?

[Tess@Porty]

Surely this is a significant step in the right direction. The Council has listened to the views of local people and acted to ensure that the widest possible range of options are considered, including the possibility of Council capital assests being realised to support the development of new schools.

[Tom Ballantine]

Sorry, submission on day of council was taken from handwritten notes not followed to the letter for the reasons previously given therefore I cant email

[Porty]

FYI Tom's submission has been posted in the schools archive thread. I had a look on PPAG do you intend to post Stephen and Gary's submissions?

Yes as soon as I get them

Any joy yet? You missed an opportunity:

[Bob Jefferson]

Posted on behalf of Stephen McIntyre:

[gilo]

Sorry, I've been away and haven't followed the thread, who wrote this letter with the bizarre claim about the majority of Porty residents and what they think?

[Pal of Porty]

Sorry, I've been away and haven't followed the thread, who wrote this letter with the bizarre claim about the majority of Porty residents and what they think?

This was was the letter handed out at a meeting held recently in Portobello. As you left the meeting you were handed this letter as a 'pro forma' to sign your name and post off. Unfortunately, no-one who organised the meeting is taking any responsibility for this - hey, we can all hand out anything we wish at public meetings - so unfortunately the composer of the letter is bearing all the rap for its many inaccuracies.

[Poppy]

As you left the meeting you were handed this letter

By whom?

[Maria]

As you left the meeting you were handed this letter

By whom?

The letter was handed out by a young woman. I don't know her name, but recognised her from other meetings. From comments she made at other meetings, I believe that she is a member of the Forum and has posted on this thread.

[ali]

The letter was handed out by a young woman................................................................ I believe that she is a member of the Forum ...................

shouldn't be difficult to identify her then!!

[Porty]

As you left the meeting you were handed this letter

By whom?

Why do you want to know? Are you going to "attack" her just because she is claiming to speak for the majority of portobello citizens? What if the majority rise up against you?

[Sandra]

http://www.alison4portobello.com/

Alison is one of my colleagues and was brought up in the area.

[Stephen McIntyre]

As you left the meeting you were handed this letter

By whom?

The letter was handed out by a young woman. I don't know her name, but recognised her from other meetings. From comments she made at other meetings, I believe that she is a member of the Forum and has posted on this thread.

Were there also people collecting money at the meeting? And if so who are they and who do they represent?

[Dave Connelly]

Sorry, submission on day of council was taken from handwritten notes not followed to the letter for the reasons previously given therefore I cant email

OK thanks Tom

[Dave Connelly]

This is not an aside, but a genuine question for those who advocate building on the park.

This is another Edinburgh Park which has quite rightly had a fair bit of cash spent on it.

<img src="http://www.clanconnelly.com/portyonline/botanics.jpg">

I was there yesterday and wondered

If Portobello park looked like this, would more people be against the council building on it.

I of course would be against it. Would you

[Epykat]

But Portobello Park is a golf course and golf courses don't look like that. If it did look like that then the 'fors' would still want to build on it because then they'd argue that we already had a park that looked like that so why would we need another?

[Bob Jefferson]

Dave, you're absolutely correct. If Portobello Park was instead the Royal Botanical Gardens then no-one would be proposing to build a school on it.

And if my aunty etc....

[Dave Connelly]

But Portobello Park is a golf course and golf courses don't look like that. If it did look like that then the 'fors' would still want to build on it because then they'd argue that we already had a park that looked like that so why would we need another?

It's not just a golf course though. It is a park and playing fields too. And yes you are probably right, but i would like to hear their opinion.

Aunty...

[Stephen McIntyre]

This is not an aside, but a genuine question for those who advocate building on the park.

This is another Edinburgh Park which has quite rightly had a fair bit of cash spent on it.

<img src="http://www.clanconnelly.com/portyonline/botanics.jpg">

I was there yesterday and wondered

If Portobello park looked like this, would more people be against the council building on it.

I of course would be against it. Would you

Dave are you feeling ok? I'm worried about you. First you drop in the catchment area wobbler and now this: a mythical botanical park. Have you exhausted any relevant arguments?

I'm assuming you came up with this idea during the day. In your daydream was the botanical park gifted by the captain of the scottish cup winning hibs team? Oh and what happened to the Golfers and Dog Walkers?

[Dave Connelly]

Dave are you feeling ok? I'm worried about you. First you drop in the catchment area wobbler and now this: a mythical botanical park. Have you exhausted any relevant arguments?

I'm assuming you came up with this idea during the day. In your daydream was the botanical park gifted by the captain of the scottish cup winning hibs team? Oh and what happened to the Golfers and Dog Walkers?

[Izzie]

Is the catchment area changing not heard that one???

[wangi]

Is the catchment area changing not heard that one???

There is currently a catchment review for Edinburgh in progress. However Portobello has been identified as: "Having looked at their current and future catchment numbers we are assuming that no change will be needed for some schools but if necessary, they may still be included at a later date"

So no, a change in the catchment are isn't currently planned.

[Dave Connelly]

<img src="http://www.clanconnelly.com/portyonline/galleryy.jpg">

Thats not quite so bad either, (not too botanical though) pity it was raining today, could have had better lighting, but thats the beauty of the park. It looks good in most weather conditions. .