Double Identities- Multiple Usernames

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 08 Jan 2007, 13:02

There has been off-board shenanigans over the last few months relating to possible multiple user names and/or identities.

I can understand why this may be an issue in the serious Matters forum but why so here in G&TT .

Why does it matter if one wishes to run 3 id's as long as one remains within the rules? (setting aside the multiple ID rule for the moment).

Lets say I wished to be Porty, Sly Stallone and Stephen McIntyre. I don't mask my ID so the mods can see that I am likely the same person. They allow me to post at will, except when I try and use the multiple ID's in the Matters forum. They then warn me privately and "out" me on the forum if i don't comply.

Wouldn't this cut down on all the nonsense about who is supposedly "cheating". Why do we have a mutiple user/double ID rule?

I either don't know or I have forgotten.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 08 Jan 2007, 13:46

This is purely my personal take on this Porty.

A quick perusal of other Forums will tell you that most ban multiple IDs, though some encourage Moderators to use dual IDs so as not to inhibit discussion.

The most obvious reason for banning multiple IDs is to stop someone who has been banned under one user name from just carrying on posting under another.

Trolls will also use multiple IDs to cause harm to a Forum; starting 'wars', backing up their own arguments, loading polls in their favour and so on. Great distress can be caused to members by mutiple IDs- one forum board was so convinced by the existence of a particular fictitious user that when it was announced by her creator that she had been killed in a car accident many were very upset. They then felt a great betrayal of trust when it was revealed they had been 'conned' by another member.

We wish to provide a welcoming and trusting atmosphere on this board and multiple IDs do not contribute to that ethos.

ali · Post by **ali** » 08 Jan 2007, 15:32

I'd like to know if it is technically possible to mask your IP address.

Obviously, if you can, then whether POL bans multiple ID's or not they can be abused.

Any techheads out there got any info?

Post by **wangi** » 08 Jan 2007, 15:44

Yes, it is possible to "mask" your IP... What you do is use an "open proxy server". Anyone using such will be banned

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 08 Jan 2007, 17:21

I'm glad to hear that, wangi. I think I remember discussing with Porty that unless you had issues with censorship in the regime you lived in (like Saudi or China) there's not really a reason to use an anonymizing proxy. There certainly isn't on here.

Short of having 2 ISPs in your house, a proxy would be the quickest route to forum shenanigans - although you'd have to remember which ISP you used for which identity!

Sometimes when I sit in my bay window with my laptop, I connect by mistake to a neighbour's wireless if Windows loses my signal from upstairs. If I ever wanted to get up to no good I could easily hog their bandwidth. The lesson is to always turn on your WEP unless you intend running a free service!

The thing there would be no stopping would be if an individual decided to use distinct computers (say, one at home and one in an internet cafe or at work) to run two identities. As long as they didn't slip up you'd never catch them, which is where forum rules and moderators come in.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 08 Jan 2007, 17:25

The thing there would be no stopping would be if an individual decided to use distinct computers (say, one at home and one in an internet cafe or at work) to run two identities

You can see this as a slapstick movie where the dual IDer runs from one location to the other for hours on end while he [or she] argues with themselves!! Speeded up film, I think, like something from Benny Hill

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 08 Jan 2007, 18:00

Poppy - when I was doing driving lessons I used to imagine either the Benny Hill music playing in the background or the Flash Harry music from St Trinians depending on the speed of the car when the guff driving was taking place!

The thing that gets me about all this is that not only do I know exactly how to do all this on a technical level, I'm also a forum regular who has had plenty run-ins - so in terms of motive and opportunity I would make myself a suspect!

Add that in with the fact that I love espionage and deliberate absurdity and I can see how some may think I was behind this.

ali · Post by **ali** » 08 Jan 2007, 18:12

Dadaist wrote:Poppy - when I was doing driving lessons I used to imagine either the Benny Hill music playing in the background or the Flash Harry music from St Trinians depending on the speed of the car when the guff driving was taking place!

The thing that gets me about all this is that not only do I know exactly how to do all this on a technical level, I'm also a forum regular who has had plenty run-ins - so in terms of motive and opportunity I would make myself a suspect!

Add that in with the fact that I love espionage and deliberate absurdity and I can see how some may think I was behind this.

you were also on the suspect list cos you've got a big brain which obviously had the spare capacity to keep track of the shenanigans - whereas I haven't got a clue whats going on half the time.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 08 Jan 2007, 18:49

Marya wrote: Trolls will also use multiple IDs to cause harm to a Forum; starting 'wars', backing up their own arguments, loading polls in their favour and so on. Great distress can be caused to members by mutiple IDs- one forum board was so convinced by the existence of a particular fictitious user that when it was announced by her creator that she had been killed in a car accident many were very upset. They then felt a great betrayal of trust when it was revealed they had been 'conned' by another member. .

As a counterbalance, wouldn't it be fun to create a character that everyone wishes to be killed in a car accident or have we been there already?

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 08 Jan 2007, 19:05

Porty wrote:
Marya wrote: Trolls will also use multiple IDs to cause harm to a Forum; starting 'wars', backing up their own arguments, loading polls in their favour and so on. Great distress can be caused to members by mutiple IDs- one forum board was so convinced by the existence of a particular fictitious user that when it was announced by her creator that she had been killed in a car accident many were very upset. They then felt a great betrayal of trust when it was revealed they had been 'conned' by another member. .
As a counterbalance, wouldn't it be fun to create a character that everyone wishes to be killed in a car accident or have we been there already?

Porty, that's not nice at all.

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 08 Jan 2007, 19:23

Thing is subterfuge can be a fun thing to do if it's not abused. I've seen a couple of instances on forums where a fake character fessed up at just the right time to great acclaim amongst the members.

This forum also had a "member" who was actually a whole team of regulars. They set themselves up as this person (Koichi Tanaka) and had a whole lot of fun. Nobody got upset either of those times.

Big difference though between a prank and something which causes upset.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 08 Jan 2007, 19:33

For goodness sake, Dada, don't go putting 'ideas' into folk's heads (and think of Ali's poor brain trying to cope with spotting it

).

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:38

Poppy wrote:
Porty wrote:
Marya wrote: Trolls will also use multiple IDs to cause harm to a Forum; starting 'wars', backing up their own arguments, loading polls in their favour and so on. Great distress can be caused to members by mutiple IDs- one forum board was so convinced by the existence of a particular fictitious user that when it was announced by her creator that she had been killed in a car accident many were very upset. They then felt a great betrayal of trust when it was revealed they had been 'conned' by another member. .
As a counterbalance, wouldn't it be fun to create a character that everyone wishes to be killed in a car accident or have we been there already?
Porty, that's not nice at all.

Is that a ticking off?

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:46

Porty wrote:
Poppy wrote:
Porty wrote: As a counterbalance, wouldn't it be fun to create a character that everyone wishes to be killed in a car accident or have we been there already?
Porty, that's not nice at all.
Is that a ticking off?

Yes, from me as a 'real person'.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:48

Poppy wrote:
Yes, from me as a 'real person'.

Whats it like?

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:50

Porty wrote:
Poppy wrote:
Yes, from me as a 'real person'.
Whats it like?

Well, you'll never know.

Sweetness!!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 10 Jan 2007, 20:29

So anyway I still don't get the issue with DID's in G&TT.

If someone is barred (a total of 4 to date and from whats rumoured there is 1 pending) This happens once a year on average and we only had the double ID rule in the lasst few months. Sorry I digress, if someone is barred for their behaviour and makes a comeback as another user who behaves well. What's the big deal? If they behave badly they get barred.

I just don't get it.

Double ID prevention does not offer insurance against the likes of Hiboz rejoining.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 10 Jan 2007, 20:42

I don't understand why you think anyone would need multiple IDs Porty.

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:01

Do I feel foolish or what now

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:06

Izzie wrote:Do I feel foolish or what now

Don't feel like that, Izzie, please!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:06

Me too Izzie.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 10 Jan 2007, 23:25

Marya wrote:I don't understand why you think anyone would need multiple IDs Porty.

I don't think they "need" double ID's, they don't need single ID's. Cleopas has been banned for threatening and abusive behaviour. If he had behaved well with both Id's he wouldn't be banned.

I'm just looking for some clarity as to why DID's are not allowed. I haven't seen it yet.

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 10 Jan 2007, 23:29

Marya wrote:This is purely my personal take on this Porty.

A quick perusal of other Forums will tell you that most ban multiple IDs, though some encourage Moderators to use dual IDs so as not to inhibit discussion.

The most obvious reason for banning multiple IDs is to stop someone who has been banned under one user name from just carrying on posting under another.

Trolls will also use multiple IDs to cause harm to a Forum; starting 'wars', backing up their own arguments, loading polls in their favour and so on. Great distress can be caused to members by mutiple IDs- one forum board was so convinced by the existence of a particular fictitious user that when it was announced by her creator that she had been killed in a car accident many were very upset. They then felt a great betrayal of trust when it was revealed they had been 'conned' by another member.

We wish to provide a welcoming and trusting atmosphere on this board and multiple IDs do not contribute to that ethos.

Porty, does this not answer your question?

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 10 Jan 2007, 23:33

I was just about to post the same thing, Poppy!

And Porty, Cleopas has been banned for multiple IDs. Messalina was banned for threatening behaviour. What would be the point of banning Messalina for that behaviour if s/he could carry on doing it under a different name?

And anyway, I think Bob's and Izzie's posts about their feelings are reason enough.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 10 Jan 2007, 23:43

No poppy it doesn't.

BB thanks for the technical breakdown.

If there was no rule against Double ID's, which was the case up until quite recently. Messalina/Cleopas could have existed without risking being barred as long as they behaved.

What you appear to be saying is the creation of a rule is self- justifcation.

Im questioning a) the efficacy of the rule and b) the need.

Did the Double ID rule effectively prevent Messalina behaving abusively? The answer is quite obvioulsy NO.

Why is Dave Connelly no longer banned?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 10 Jan 2007, 23:50

Bellybabe wrote: And anyway, I think Bob's and Izzie's posts about their feelings are reason enough.

Is there a new "if more than one person feels something" rule?

And BTW I have no issue with banning all ID's of indivduals who blatantly abuse the rules under just one of their user names.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 10 Jan 2007, 23:56

Oh dear. I've not been on for a couple of days and have obviously missed something.
Noticed Messalina had been quiet ( but not in the Scotsman comments ) but didn't know there had been anything abusive said, or was it in pm s? Or has it passed me by?
Sorry to loose Cleopas, alias or not. Always seemed fairly witty to me. Suppose you must enforce the rules

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 10 Jan 2007, 23:57

SoupDragon wrote:Noticed Messalina had been quiet ( but not in the Scotsman comments )

noticed that too.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 11 Jan 2007, 00:08

Ah we read the same things. Or are too stingy to buy the papers

Find some of the posts in the EN and Scotsman can be interesting but some are entirely predictable and some are just waffle.
Get a better class altogether on POL

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 11 Jan 2007, 10:03

Porty wrote:
And BTW I have no issue with banning all ID's of indivduals who blatantly abuse the rules under just one of their user names.

Glad to hear you approve.

Porty, it seems to me that we are looking at the issue from either ends of the spectrum. You want the individual to have as many rights as possible while I look at things from the perspective of protecting the group. I have given some of the reasons why forums have such a rule against the use of multiple IDs but haven't heard any reason from you as to why an individual would want multiple IDs on a Forum other than you think it is their right.

Where are the benefits for the Forum? There can be plenty of negatives.

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 11 Jan 2007, 10:37

Dammitt! All this 'threats of violence' stuff seems to have passed over my head! I've been totally oblivious to all of it.

There can't really be a place for things like that on this forum though.

Dada - that goes for you too mate, threatnin' to fill my poor wee hamsters wi lead...!

Dadaist · Post by **Dadaist** » 11 Jan 2007, 10:40

Here is something you can't understand - how I could just kill a hamster!

impossiblevoices · Post by **impossiblevoices** » 11 Jan 2007, 10:46

SEE? SEE? ^^^

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 11 Jan 2007, 11:32

Marya wrote:.but haven't heard any reason from you as to why an individual would want multiple IDs on a Forum other than you think it is their right. Where are the benefits for the Forum? There can be plenty of negatives.

In no way am I ducking this issue and I will addres it. Perhaps I should come along to your next meeting.

However, let me tackle what you say here. And please keep in mind I am questioning the need and efficac of the rule:

Marya wrote:. I have given some of the reasons why forums have such a rule against the use of multiple IDs

And here are the reasons you gave:

Marya wrote: A quick perusal of other Forums will tell you that most ban multiple IDs, though some encourage Moderators to use dual IDs so as not to inhibit discussion.

That's not a reason for barring Double ID's. in fact its an example of how DID's can promote better discussion. I accept that a quick perusal of other forums may indicate that DID's are barred, many wrongs don't make a right and POL is unique.

Marya wrote:The most obvious reason for banning multiple IDs is to stop someone who has been banned under one user name from just carrying on posting under another.

The Cleo/Messy situation proves that ruling against multiple ID's does not prevent abuse. In reality it was the IP address thar was banned.

Marya wrote: Trolls will also use multiple IDs to cause harm to a Forum; starting 'wars', backing up their own arguments, loading polls in their favour and so on

I accept this but it wasn't a problem when we had no rule, was it

Marya wrote: Great distress can be caused to members by mutiple IDs- one forum board was so convinced by the existence of a particular fictitious user that when it was announced by her creator that she had been killed in a car accident many were very upset. They then felt a great betrayal of trust when it was revealed they had been 'conned' by another member.

Well if the supposed death of an anoymous virtual freind causes great distress to other forum users. There's somthing wrong. Was this the "worry about strangers" forum by any chance?And this "ruse" could easily have been constructed by someone with a single ID, agreed?

Marya wrote: We wish to provide a welcoming and trusting atmosphere on this board and multiple IDs do not contribute to that ethos.

Multiple ID's are banned how could they contribute to the ethos?

ali · Post by **ali** » 11 Jan 2007, 11:51

Porty wrote: Well if the supposed death of an anoymous virtual freind causes great distress to other forum users.

Mods!!!!!! Over here - Quick!!!!!