Replacement of HLR / Seafield / Portobello Rd Roundabout

Poppy · Post by **Poppy** » 21 Oct 2005, 16:11

I know there's a thread about this already, but anyway..............

Traffic Lights at said Roundabout

Gizmo · Post by **Gizmo** » 21 Oct 2005, 16:20

Hurray for that news! That roundabout really is a pain. You kind of just have to play chicken with the other cars at peak time, otherwise you would be stuck there all day.....

Post by **wangi** » 21 Oct 2005, 16:23

Gizmo, it's even more fun when you're playing chicken with cars... And you are on a bike. To be honest (and I know there's history here) I find the existing round about ok for Portobello Rd -> Portobello High St but the reverse isn't too attractive.

Gizmo · Post by **Gizmo** » 21 Oct 2005, 16:26

Wangi; I can only imagine. What a nightmare. I would get off and walk the long way round!! What annoys me alot about that roundabout though, is the amount of people that go in the right hand lane from portobello road to go to the high street, even though it is clearly marked on the road which lane to be in. Have had a couple of close calls with eejits doing that and cutting in front of me. Nice big press of the horn soon sorts them out though

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 21 Oct 2005, 16:53

Gizmo wrote:amount of people that go in the right hand lane from portobello road to go to the high street, even though it is clearly marked on the road which lane to be in. Have had a couple of close calls with eejits doing that and cutting in front of me. Nice big press of the horn soon sorts them out though

You may find that some of these peeps have came round from Sir Harry Lauder's Road thus there technically in the right lane.

Anyways, sounds good and definately needed.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 21 Oct 2005, 17:06

Homer assures me he avoids the roundabout at all costs on his daily commute opting instead to cycle via Fishwives Causeway or Figgate Park.

I agree that vehicles using the wrong lane are a pain Gizmo. My major moan concerns the Seafield>Harry Lauder route and drivers who use the left hand lane instead of the right hand one. The huge 'John Lewis' lorries are some of the worst culprits

However, these daily battles may be left in the past, as I suspect, with priority being given to buses (i.e. Portobello Road <->High Street route), that the Seafield Road queues will increase and I will have to rethink my route home.

Gizmo · Post by **Gizmo** » 21 Oct 2005, 17:10

Robin!: nah, afraid not. It is always people that leave the portobello road in the right lane the same time that I am leaving in the correct lane that always cut me off. How they don't see the person in the correct lane anyhow. Use your mirrors!!!!

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 21 Oct 2005, 21:58

Gizmo wrote:Robin!: nah, afraid not. It is always people that leave the portobello road in the right lane the same time that I am leaving in the correct lane that always cut me off. How they don't see the person in the correct lane anyhow. Use your mirrors!!!!

Fair play, but agree with mirrors, people forget the MSM routine.

Also if people indicated on roundabouts it would make it hell of a lot easier to get out.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 21 Oct 2005, 22:35

Robin! wrote:Also if people indicated on roundabouts it would make it hell of a lot easier to get out.

Well said Robin! When did it become so 'uncool' to do this I wonder? Driving with a friend in my passenger seat recently, I was on the receiving end of his scorn. 'Only learner drivers indicate' according to him

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 21 Oct 2005, 22:48

Marya wrote:
Robin! wrote:Also if people indicated on roundabouts it would make it hell of a lot easier to get out.
Well said Robin! When did it become so 'uncool' to do this I wonder? Driving with a friend in my passenger seat recently, I was on the receiving end of his scorn. 'Only learner drivers indicate' according to him

doesn't drive a BMW does he?

seriously though thats a rotten attidude to take, maybe give him a highway code to read.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 21 Oct 2005, 22:54

Robin! wrote: doesn't drive a BMW does he?

He does

Mind you so do I- even if Porty thinks it's not grand enough to be seen near his house

Robin! · Post by **Robin!** » 21 Oct 2005, 23:07

*edit* This post has been removed as it breached forum posting guidelines.

General Tactifer · Post by **General Tactifer** » 22 Oct 2005, 01:53

Robin
that has GOT to be worth a rec - even if they don't exist on this board!

mr magnolia · Post by **mr magnolia** » 22 Oct 2005, 22:45

What's a rec?

don't forget, BTW, the stated purpose of the lights is to 'even out the queue lengths'. (or words very similar, and of same meaning)

This means the waiting time at the end of Porty High Street at the roundabout in the morning will increase. So once you get through the lights at the cross, you will have more queueing to do... Dunno what that's going to do to the buses through Porty of a morning.

General Tactifer · Post by **General Tactifer** » 23 Oct 2005, 17:44

mr magnolia wrote:What's a rec?

'Rec' = recommendation. Refers to the facility available on some discussion boards to give favoured messages a thumbs-up of some kind. Particularly useful or interesting messages will attract lots of 'recs' and so will stand out.

mr magnolia · Post by **mr magnolia** » 23 Oct 2005, 20:49

Thanks general!

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 24 Oct 2005, 14:20

mr magnolia wrote:What's a rec?

don't forget, BTW, the stated purpose of the lights is to 'even out the queue lengths'. (or words very similar, and of same meaning)

This means the waiting time at the end of Porty High Street at the roundabout in the morning will increase. So once you get through the lights at the cross, you will have more queueing to do... Dunno what that's going to do to the buses through Porty of a morning.

Good point Mr. M. The new traffic measures will also increase the amount
of queueing traffic (pollution) on the HLR.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 24 Oct 2005, 17:55

mr magnolia wrote:... Dunno what that's going to do to the buses through Porty of a morning.

I'd heard that the buses are going to have sensor thingys on them (same as emergency vehicles) which change the lights to green on approach. Don't know how that would work though if there was a bus approaching at the same time from every direction

Post by **wangi** » 11 Mar 2008, 12:48

Cllr Maureen Child reported last month a delay to the scheme:

Maureen Child wrote:I have just learned today about the King's Road roundabout, work on which was due to start in March "with a fair wind", now won’t start for a few months yet. The Council officer in charge of the bus priority schemes tells me:

The tenders have now been returned for the contract. The tender values are significantly higher than had been budgeted for. Council officers we are therefore currently assessing whether sufficient funding will be available in the 2008/09 budget for the construction of the scheme.

Due to the value of the tenders submitted, the Council's Standing Orders require that permission would need to be obtained from a Council Committee to award any contract. The next available Committee from which permission could be obtained is the City of Edinburgh Council meeting on 13 March 2008. This means that the road works could not now commence until mid May at the earliest.

This has been picked up in the Scotsman / EN today:

Busy roundabout to be replaced causing further disruption

MOTORISTS are set for even more roadworks misery when a £1.7 million project to revamp one of the city's busiest roundabouts gets under way. Work to replace the roundabout which links Seafield Road, Portobello Road and King's Road with traffic lights is expected to begin in May.

The 20-week project will take place at the same time as motorists face diversions and road closures in Leith and the West End as part of the tram project.

...

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinb ... 3863830.jp

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 11 Mar 2008, 13:12

The thought of 20 weeks of traffic chaos truly makes me want to weep. I'd managed to survive the months of disruption in the Leith Walk area, but was bracing myself for the closure of Constitution Street. Now we face this as well.

At this rate the quickest way from Portobello to the other side of Leith Walk will be round the by-pass.

tom nimmo · Post by **tom nimmo** » 11 Mar 2008, 14:15

Marya, the quickest way to get from Portobello to Leith is by cycling. Actually, the quickest way to go anywhere in Edinburgh is by cycling. It takes me less than 20 minutes to cycle from Portobello to Dalmeny Street and by using the prom to the dog and cat home and going along the links I cut out most of the traffic. Go on, give it a go, you know it makes sense.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 11 Mar 2008, 14:34

I was waiting for you to post Tom

I did give it a go and didn't like it one little bit. (Nearly went over my handle bars into the Water of Leith in fact!) Apart from the fact that it is difficult for me to carry all the stuff I need for work, I didn't grow up owning or riding a bike and lack confidence using one, especially in town. Put me in an environment such as the Netherlands and I'll cycle - not with a grin on my face - but I will do it. However, the Dutch people have a completely different attitude as a nation to cyclists ( and very few cobbles or hills!). It feels very safe and almost pleasant.

Homer cycles every day and treats his commute quite competitively. Interestingly enough, he will concede that the no 26 bus makes it from Porty High Street to the City centre in the same time he can on his bike. We have an excellent service in the 26 and don't need blooming trams! I'm not so much against the lights replacing the roundabout as having to cope with so many sets of roadworks all at the same time - most of them due to utility works for the trams. We'll have the same upheaval all over again when they actually start the work for tram lines . *grrr*

Post by **wangi** » 11 Mar 2008, 16:31

Some more info on this:

Maureen Child wrote:Please find attached some details about the replacement of Kings Road/Seafield Road Roundabout, in the form of briefing notes. I know you’re not all wildly enthusiastic about this, BUT the accident statistics show just one of the reasons why it is a necessary change, in addition to the benefits to bus reliability.

I met with Council transport officers on Thursday and they agreed a few changes to the communication about the scheme. The attached briefing note reflects that.

There are two big ‘pdf’ files which give details of the design of the junction (1,017KB) and where the injury accidents occurred (535KB). I will send either one or both of these files to you, but only if you ask me; rather than overload your inbox without forewarning.

In the next couple of weeks, there should be a paper copy of the plan available, in the reference section of Portobello Library. I suggested the Council officers also offer to come and talk to a future meeting of Portobello Community Council (PCC) and take questions. That has yet to be confirmed with PCC.

The Council and project manager have learned a huge amount from the work done on the Milton Link. The operation of this next project will benefit from that. I have had about 350 e mail exchanges with officers about the bus priority project in Milton, and further improvements are still being considered.

Lothian Buses report that it is working very well indeed for them!

If you can think of any other improvement, to relieve the inevitable ’pain’ of this future work at Seafield/King’s Road/Portobello High Street, please do let me know. That is, short of ‘Cancel the Project!’, which is not an option.

The work may well start in mid-May this year and is scheduled to take 20 weeks.

The referenced documents:

Ward Councillors Briefing Note (pdf 80k, also available in original Word format)
Detailed diagram (pdf 1MB)
History of accidents (pdf 500k)

L/

tom nimmo · Post by **tom nimmo** » 11 Mar 2008, 20:31

Hey Marya, totally agree with you on the trams. Crossing Leith Walk is a death trap with all the work going on and I can only imagine how bad it is going to get down at Seafield Road roundabout. I concede that cycling in Edinburgh is not for the inexperienced or faint-hearted so I don't blame anyone for not taking it up. Even though I got frozen and soaked cycling home tonight I still prefer it to any other form of commuting as at least I am constantly on the move. Question - Does anyone know of a main road in Edinburgh that does not have roadworks on it?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 12 May 2008, 16:35

From Maureen Child:

Dear All

I have been informed by the project manager, Andrew Easson, the work which includes the removal of the Seafield Road/Kings Road Roundabout to put in controlled crossings and other bus priority measures will start in mid-June.

“Following a pre-start meeting with the Contractor (Barr Construction), the start date has been agreed as Monday June 16. The contract period is 20 weeks,” he says.

I will let you have more details when I have them.

portyallmydays · Post by **portyallmydays** » 20 May 2008, 09:41

Had a leaflet through the door yesterday which informed us that when the work starts on the removal of the roundabout, all the streets from Craigentinny Avenue down (Craigy Cresc , Christiemillar etc) will be closed at the Porty Road end and traffic lights will be installed at the top of Craigentinny Avenue. This is obviously to stop the "rat runs" which even just now are common routes (on one hand this is not a bad thing as the speed some of the cars drive up these streets is ridiculous).

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 30 May 2008, 19:14

Got a flyer tonight which said work starts on 16 June.....until 2 November!!!

Hours of work will be 7am-10pm Mon-Fri and 8am-7pm on a Saturday.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 31 May 2008, 12:01

Wonder if we'll get a flyer.
Any idea about how it will affect the buses to Leith?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 31 May 2008, 12:31

The intention is to keep the junction/roundabout open at all times Soupdragon, but suspect there will be long delays. The only bus route changes will be to those that go down Wakefield - they will have to divert down Craigentinny Av.

Warning notices are going up on routes well in advance of the roadworks so that cars can divert to a different route, but until they start who knows what will happen. Leaflets are also going to be distributed to places such as Dobbie's and petrol stations to let commuters know in advance.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 01 Jun 2008, 16:21

For anyone who didn't get a copy of the flyer, more info here:

Major Roadworks - King's Road roundabout

Grunk · Post by **Grunk** » 02 Jul 2008, 13:22

Is it just me or is the roundabout a lot easier to negotiate now they have gotten rid of the bushes (i.e. you can actually see what's coming now). I wonder if that is all they really needed to do. Especially since the bus congestion wont' actually be improved by bus priority lanes there. All the bus priority will do is delay the non-bus traffic at this (since the buses will be caught up in this traffic they will be delayed too).

Is the planning office going to keep a record of the accidents in the 8 years following this improvement scheme, what happens if there turns out to be more accidents?

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 02 Jul 2008, 13:39

I agree it has become easier to negotiate Grunk, but suspect that also may have something to do with a lower volume of traffic. The single lane may also be slowing vehicles down.

I recall from a presentation, at a recent CC meeting, that the new lights to be installed are 'intelligent' and will aim to give priority to the lanes with heaviest traffic flow, not just approaching buses.

Grunk · Post by **Grunk** » 02 Jul 2008, 14:13

The software that controls the traffic lights can only be as "intelligent" as the people who programmed it.

Ideally anyone who does this should have a degree in fluid dynamics or network management, I doubt this will be the case though.

Post by **wangi** » 02 Jul 2008, 15:16

The new junction at Milton link has the same intelligent traffic lights, as does the Eastfield junction. They certainly work at Eastfield, less convinced about Milton Link.

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 05 Jul 2008, 11:09

Porty wrote:I should add, just to stay on topic, that the kings road roundabout doesn't seem to be causing that much of a hold up yet. The temporary lights further up portobello road, just past yer hoose, are causing more bother. Part of the same plan?

Think the lights at Craigentinny Ave are to help the cars and buses that cant get through Wakefield Avenue.
Its coming into Portobello from Leith thats the biggest hold up at Kings Road. Two lanes down to one
Duddingston X is fun as well, down to one lane getting through at a time. So if you try and avoid the Craigentinny lights by going along Willowbrae Rd or Northfield Broadway you get stuck with them.

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