Community owned social space for Portobello?

Tommy Black · Post by **Tommy Black** » 24 Sep 2008, 21:51

Does Porty need a comfortable, friendly space for local groups to meet and hold events?

What would a space where people can create and run community initiatives look like? A bookshop/ café/ pub/ meeting rooms/ offices/ art & music studios/ or … what?! PEDAL are holding a consultation event to find out if this is something local people want. If you want it, and want to help shape it, then …

Come to an Open Space event and give us your views and ideas!

11am – 4pm, Sat 4th October at St James’s Church Hall, Rosefield Place.

(some bursaries are available to cover reasonable childcare costs of attending, contact 669 6313 for information)

PEDAL (POrtobello Energy Decent and Land Reform group) is a Portobello-based voluntary association of local residents, formed in 2005. We believe that Portobello can and should re-localise. This means providing more of the everyday services and products we use locally. For example: growing more of our food; generating our own energy; creating a wider range of jobs close to home; finding ways to get to 'zero waste'; providing more leisure opportunities here in Portobello ... We'll all get more out of living here – and help the planet and the local economy at the same time. Rather than hoping that governments might act fast enough in responding to the big environmental and social issues, we are working now to re-localise, and to help other communities do the same.

Post by **wangi** » 24 Sep 2008, 21:53

Hi Tommy, welcome to the site.

What would be the difference to a community centre, like the one we already have?

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 24 Sep 2008, 22:35

Tommy Black, does PEDAL, the group you are promoting have a website? Whats the address?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 24 Sep 2008, 22:50

Is re-localise the new Black?

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 09:09

Tommy Black wrote:

(some bursaries are available to cover reasonable childcare costs of attending, contact 669 6313 for information)

....... Rather than hoping that governments might act fast enough in responding to the big environmental and social issues, we are working now to re-localise, and to help other communities do the same.

Are these bursaries being provided by the one of the governments? Just curious.

Post by **wangi** » 25 Sep 2008, 09:44

michael_traill wrote:Tommy Black, does PEDAL, the group you are promoting have a website? Whats the address?

http://www.pedal-porty.org.uk/

Post by **wangi** » 25 Sep 2008, 09:51

Porty wrote:Are these bursaries being provided by the one of the governments? Just curious.

I'd assume it's coming out of the £10k funding pot they secured. From the PEDAL website:

Funding Bids:
Urban Community Buyout

Our plans are moving ahead for buying and running a community owned social space to help the process of regenerating the local economy. We have secured £10,000 to do a feasibility study for this, so let us know what you think Porty needs! Email: info@pedal-porty.org.uk, phone or come to the Focus Groups or Open Space. Probable dates:

1. 1st Focus group - Sept 25th?
2. Open Space to generate more ideas — 27th Sept or 4th October?
3. 2nd Focus Group – to focus in on the ideas – maybe October 9th?

We had a thread on this earlier; and I'm still confused why you need an "urban buyout" - just go ahead and buy / let one of the available properties on the open market. It's a completely different situation than rural communities.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 12:19

Where was the £10K secured from? I think what's needed here is an audit on whoever is handing out this feasibility money to groups like PEDAL. To me its seems bonkers, I'm talking stark raving. (Is this the same stable that brought us the Re-apier white elephant?)

We already have a number of open spaces that are owned by the community. The library and community centre to name two. Why can't PEDAL meet there or in one of the church halls or at the sailing club, I'm sure they would welcome the business. This would save energy and the cost of opening a new place.

PEDAL (POrtobello Energy Decent and Land Reform group)

That doesn't make sense to me and as for the objectives:

is a Portobello-based voluntary association of local residents, formed in 2005. We believe that Portobello can and should re-localise. This means providing more of the everyday services and products we use locally. For example: growing more of our food; generating our own energy; creating a wider range of jobs close to home; finding ways to get to 'zero waste'; providing more leisure opportunities here in Portobello

So how is a bookshop or cafe going to help achieve those objectives? What does re-localise mean? I'm with Wangi, what has an urban buyout got to do with all of this?

Grunk · Post by **Grunk** » 25 Sep 2008, 13:22

You know to help Portobello's economy, they should really push for better transport links. either a tram spur or reopening of the train station or both(the hovercraft would have been good too). This would encourage more people out of their cars.

If they couple this with encouraging shopkeepers to adopt a more continental approach to opening (i.e. open their shops a little later so people can actually get to them), local businesses would thrive.

People in cars go to supermarkets, people out of cars go to local shops(if they're open).

I also think an algae farm off Seafield would produce enough bio-matter for carbon neutral energy for all of Portobello.

There are already plenty of pubs/cafe's for people to meet in, I'm not sure what buying another space would bring to the table.

Anyway, it's probably more efficient to discuss ideas on a forum, which people can access remotely, technology is great.

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 25 Sep 2008, 14:14

As a user of public transport, I'm more than a little fed up with the bottle-necks/traffic jams in Porty High Street caused by a combination of van parking (not usually delivering goods to shops either) and the incredibly wide pavements.
Local transport links are good, but it is the actual road layout that hampers their effective usage. A dedicated bus lane with no parking would be a real boon.

I agree - there seems to be a surfeit of cafes at the moment. I go to the High Street for the specialised shops, like the craft shop, the dolls house shop and the knitting/habardashers shop. Mind you, a good bookshop with coffee and cake shop would be different!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 14:31

Seashell, I agree. Hopefully the KRR improvements will aid traffic flow and we need better policing of the parked vans and other vehicles. A bookshop would be very welcome but I can't see any benefit of marrying that type of venture with a group like PEDAL- I mean why make your target market a few dozen people?

Dispense with the urban buyout pish. The hard yards are the income to meet the expenses once the venturte is up and running. Rather than use one's capital to buy something just rent until you see how it goes.Portobello hasn't got the space for something like this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4579699.stm

Grunk · Post by **Grunk** » 25 Sep 2008, 14:46

Even on a good day 45mins - 1hour to go 4 miles into the city centre is NOT a good transport link, should be 20 minutes tops.

I really doubt KRR "improvements" will help public transport.
there may be some priority signaling for buses, but it's pretty pointless if the buses are stuck in the traffic that is being held up by the priority signaling, because there is not a dedicated bus lane all the way through portobello.

Although the road is wide enough for two lanes (one bus and one normal) to the junction with on lane back, but it is unlikely that this will have been thought of.

I like wide pavements though, pedestrians should be allowed some space after all.

Anyway this post should really be in the KRR thread.

back onto this topic, I really can't see what PEDAL hopes to achieve here except to spend its money, perhaps it needs to do that to ensure a grant next year?

seashell · Post by **seashell** » 25 Sep 2008, 14:47

Very true.
Local libraries, community centres &c are all great resources - with insurance in place, health and safety considerations taken into effect etc. I'm a member of a (non-Porty) quilting Group that meets in a council-run playgroup building, with a lovely janitor who even makes coffee and tea for us!
One of the things I really like about the portobello website is the space given to local groups - there are so many people out there willling to help others develop new skills.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 14:59

All 3 of us must have posted within a 2 second window.!!

A few years ago PEDAL made a bid for £25k to fund feasibility for a new pier. Last year we had the prospect of them or some similar group taking over what is now Espy and turning it into a Pub/Art School/Studio type facility. Now they have £10k for a non-specific plan. This is definitely a money thing.

I've no doubt that these people are well intentioned but to me they are country or village folks whose commercial nouse is poor. We live in a city, Portobello has a bit of acommunity feel, it has a bit of community spirit but it is not a community in the way that a village is. It never could be.

Maybe they should de-localise to somewhere their ideas would have a better chance of fruition. Or channel their efforts through traditional, democratic bodies, like PCC or the council itself. The problem is they really don't like the council.

Post by **wangi** » 25 Sep 2008, 15:05

Porty wrote:A few years ago PEDAL made a bid for £25k to fund feasibility for a new pier.

That was BTOTB, unless I missed another attempt!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 15:10

Oops! My apologies to PEDAL - I tend to associate hare-brained with them. I didn't know dc Cairns was active in BTOTB and if i remember correctly she was the originator.

Grunk · Post by **Grunk** » 25 Sep 2008, 15:22

A pier and Marina would be great, turn Portobello into the Scottish Riviera.

Porty wrote: We live in a city, Portobello has a bit of a community feel, it has a bit of community spirit but it is not a community in the way that a village is. It never could be.

Doesn't mean it can't be improved. In any other city in the world, a location such as Portobello with awesome views, a beach, a wide Promenade etc. would be highly sought after, an economic microcosm. Sadly Edinburgh council or whoever is responsible for planning and redevelopment doesn't seem to realise this*.

*This might be a good thing, since regeneration seems to mean, building hundreds of tiny high rise flats with no local amenities.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 15:49

I agree Grunk. The seafront a Porty could be so much better than it is but unfortunately we don't have a clean slate. personally I would have preferred a muti-storey hotel/apartment landmark on the site of the fun fair or Pitz site rather than just flats. (no objection to the flats themselves)

A pier and marina would be desirable but it has to be economically viable. One day, when onshore land development is truly exhausted we may see this type of development offshore in Porty but not in the forseeable.

Getting back to PEDAL.

As Wangi pointed out my memory is not serving me well here, , however I think their original plan was to take over the Scottish Power site and try to reach some of their objectives, like grow their own food , maybe some energy generation and so on. At the time the land was worth between £8m and £50m, superstore dependent. My point is; PEDAL cannot hope to achieve such an acquistion in a city, even in one of the poorer suburbs like Porty. There are too many commercial and other pressures. It is pie in the sky.

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 25 Sep 2008, 16:14

There are lots of scraps of land that could be put to some use.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 16:17

I do agree with that- there's more than one on the prom but there's more than one underused community facility too. I'm unaware of any scrap of land that would effectively assist PEDAL achieving their objectives.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 25 Sep 2008, 16:51

I might have got totally the wrong end of the stick, or maybe I'm missing something so forgive me if that's the case, but it appears to me that PEDAL, rather than working WITH the Community and making use of the Community Centre, which can only be good from their point of view and give them more clout as regards being rebuilt, they seem to be working AGAINST the Community and branching off on their own in direct opposition. The 'Village Show' title got up my nose too. We're NOT a village so why didn't they call it something like a 'Community Day' or 'Seaside TOWN' show?

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 25 Sep 2008, 16:59

Incomers.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 25 Sep 2008, 17:24

Bob Jefferson wrote:Incomers.

Like your good self Bob Jefferson.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 18:12

Epykat wrote:I might have got totally the wrong end of the stick, or maybe I'm missing something so forgive me if that's the case, but it appears to me that PEDAL, rather than working WITH the Community and making use of the Community Centre, which can only be good from their point of view and give them more clout as regards being rebuilt, they seem to be working AGAINST the Community and branching off on their own in direct opposition.

Yet the continually claim that their position and beliefs are representative of the community. Examples are littered all over this site. Thankfully TB steered away from this style with his post.

I'm of the opinion PEDAL are closer to anarchist than environmentalist. Ecoism is a trojan horse for the real agenda and Portobello is fairly fertile hunting ground.

Epykat wrote:The 'Village Show' title got up my nose too. We're NOT a village so why didn't they call it something like a 'Community Day' or 'Seaside TOWN' show?

I'm not so bothered about the "Village" tag. From the photos it did look a bit like a village fair, what with all the vegetables, goods for sale and so on. Think the word was used as more of a fun thing.

Bob's tongue in cheek reference to incomers is a little simplistic but I see what he means. I wonder if PEDAL rather than re- would consider de-localising? I'm sure I could come up with a feasibility analysis proving it would either benefit or make no difference to the remaining 99.98% of Porty's poulation.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 25 Sep 2008, 18:20

Epykat wrote: The 'Village Show' title got up my nose too. We're NOT a village so why didn't they call it something like a 'Community Day' or 'Seaside TOWN' show?

Well said Epykat, I totally agree!!

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 25 Sep 2008, 18:23

Tommy Black wrote:Does Porty need a comfortable, friendly space for local groups to meet and hold events?

What would a space where people can create and run community initiatives look like? A bookshop/ café/ pub/ meeting rooms/ offices/ art & music studios/ or … what?! PEDAL are holding a consultation event to find out if this is something local people want. If you want it, and want to help shape it, then …

Come to an Open Space event and give us your views and ideas!

11am – 4pm, Sat 4th October at St James’s Church Hall, Rosefield Place.

(some bursaries are available to cover reasonable childcare costs of attending, contact 669 6313 for information)

PEDAL (POrtobello Energy Decent and Land Reform group) is a Portobello-based voluntary association of local residents, formed in 2005. We believe that Portobello can and should re-localise. This means providing more of the everyday services and products we use locally. For example: growing more of our food; generating our own energy; creating a wider range of jobs close to home; finding ways to get to 'zero waste'; providing more leisure opportunities here in Portobello ... We'll all get more out of living here – and help the planet and the local economy at the same time. Rather than hoping that governments might act fast enough in responding to the big environmental and social issues, we are working now to re-localise, and to help other communities do the same.

Now it would seem that this PEDAL lot are full of good intentions and apparently have the good of the community at heart. So why then would they be flyposting on the railings outside the town hall? Im pretty sure flyposting, as well as being a statutory offence (im fairly certain), is not best suited to improving a community as surely it just degrades the local environment??!!

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 25 Sep 2008, 19:30

I would like to congratulate Tommy on airing this matter on the local community discussion forum, when so many people who claim to represent the community would prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist.

Let's hope he has a sense of humour and can take the odd jibe or his post count may not reach double figures.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 25 Sep 2008, 19:34

Bob Jefferson wrote:I would like to congratulate Tommy on airing this matter on the local community discussion forum, when so many people who claim to represent the community would prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist.

Let's hope he has a sense of humour and can take the odd jibe or his post count may not reach double figures.

Here Here, well said Bob Jefferson.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 25 Sep 2008, 19:50

And Tommy is the only one prepared to put his name to the PEDAL website too. I now understand the D in PEDAL its not D for Decent (as Tommy said above) it is D for Descent. Portobello Energy Descent And Land Reform.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 26 Sep 2008, 17:08

Bob Jefferson wrote:Incomers.

If the cap fits......

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » 26 Sep 2008, 22:06

The church in Marlborough St is up for sale. May be an ideal location.

StarVanMan · Post by **StarVanMan** » 26 Sep 2008, 23:25

Yes, thanks for raising this Tommy. If I read your initial message right, and it's not hard, you invited people to come along to say if this is a good idea. If you get the range of comments on this thread I think that would be a worthwhile event.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 27 Sep 2008, 11:33

As someone who, albeit usually only once a year, needs use of a room for a combined AGM and social, there's not a lot of accommodation in Portobello, which ticks all the boxes. The upstairs room in the library means an early start to a meeting and everyone out by 8, while church halls and the community centre both lack the comfort and ambiance you'd ideally like. Those of us who shivered in the cold at the launch of Portybelly Telly will know what I mean!

Then there's the possibility of a more suitable venue for CC meetings. It has been mentioned that holding it in a church hall may deter some locals from attending and, while it is fortunate to be able to regularly hold it in the same venue, no one could claim that the Baptist Church Hall offers much comfort.

Church halls and the community centre are great for concerts, craft fairs and sports, but a more intimate space, with warm comfortable surroundings and flexible opening times would be good too.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 28 Sep 2008, 02:07

Good points Marya but I believe this is demand led market and an additional "community owned" open space is commercially unviable.

BeachBum · Post by **BeachBum** » 28 Sep 2008, 08:51

I take it this venture, if I ever leaves the ground would be a social enterprise?

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

Community owned social space for Portobello?

Community owned social space for Portobello?

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Re: Community owned social space for Portobello?

Re: Community owned social space for Portobello?

Re: Community owned social space for Portobello?

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