Independent Businesses & Subway in Portobello!

[paletoecosse]

POINT 1

We are a couple living locally, who are thinking of opening our own business in the food/take away field. We intend to offer something not currently available in the Portobello area and have a number of ideas. We would welcome any input from Porty residents on what they might like to see in Portobello. We are aware that there are a large number of takeaways and we wish to offer products which are healthier and a bit different to the usual fare. We would also like to sell tasty ingredients for cooking at home, as we know many local people are keen on cooking and can’t always find key ingredients in the area. The main focus will be on Mediterranean couisine and produce.

Is there any specific food that you (potential customer) would like to buy from us, something either difficult to find either in the area or in the entire city or that requires a long preparation time?

POINT 2

On the subject of new food outlets, we have recently become aware of Subway’s plans to open a takeaway shop on the site previously occupied by Klaze (High Street near Kitchener’s Deli). We believe this will be negative for the community, as it offers nothing not already available from the likes of Greggs and Baguette Express and will affect all the independent take-aways.
We consider the arrival of an international big-chain name to be an unnecessary addition which will take away some of the charm of our High Street. We wonder whether other Talk Porty contributors agree? And whether we should campaign against Subway?

[Bob Jefferson]

Firstly, welcome to the forum. A lot of people would probably say that we already have too many fast-food takeaway businesses in Portobello, so I'm pleased that you aim to offer a healthy alternative to what is already available.

I don't particularly like the idea of Subway moving into Portobello either, or any other chain for that matter, but I'm not sure how we could realistically campaign against them. Besides, we already have Scotmid, RS Mcolls, Boots, Baguette Express, Greggs, Fords etc which are all chains.

Does Subway already have consent for a change of use? Would you be taking over Kitcheners or would you hope to complement what they already do?

[Epykat]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Well....you've come to the right place since Portobello is the home of campaigners!

I agree about Subway and I was really hoping something much better could have gone into such a well situated and decent sized shop as Klaze so I'm a bit disappointed with that but not really surprised. At least it's not another charity shop. Also the branding and logos of these chains seem to be exempt from any rules regarding heritage colours and conservation area rules which really annoys me.

As far as your business idea goes - I personally think there are far too many food/takeaway places as it is. However, if I only had the choice between you and Subway I would have gone with your idea - if that's any consolation!

[wangi]

If Subway does arrive you can be guaranteed it will be run by a franchisee - somebody trying their best to make a good living, just as you would be.

I'm no great fan of Subway - that's through overexposure in parts of the world (mainly Texas) where it is one of the healthy options! Saying that it is just another name in a High St already full of non-local names.

http://www.subway.co.uk/business/franch ... .aspx?da=1 - note "Portobello, Edinburgh".

[rapunzell]

From a purely personal point of view, my favourite take-away (well, home-delivery to be more accurate) is a good big sandwich and some home-made soup. If one of those ever opens in the village I'll be a regular phoner-inner.

[Bazza]

I guess the thing I'd most like to see is a food-shop open after 6pm! I don't get home till after six normally, so it's only really Scotmid or one of the mini-grocers on the High Street that's open. If one of the veg shops was open late, I'd use it...

As for food, I cook a lot of Indian food, and my nearest source of paneer at the moment in in Jock's Lodge...

[seanie]

I'd like a Taco Bell, regardless of how evil a multi-national they are.

[paletoecosse]

Hi everybody,

thanks for all your comments, they are really helping us with our ideas.

It is great to be part of this forum, helps us to feel part of a lively community.

Any other suggestions or ideas from other Porty residents are welcome and appreciated.

Thank you

[Grunk]

The idea that I really like is that of a tapas style place. I mean the way the Spanish do it, not the way the British do it.

Tapa translates to "snack" and that is exactly what it is. You go in order a drink and a tapa or two, then repeat if you want, or not.

it's really good way of getting some food in you in a social atmosphere without the formality of a sit down meal, it also means you can vary the menu daily as you can just prepare each days batch fresh, but you don't need to keep such a large stock of fixed menu items.

However I'm not sure if Porty is ready for such a cosmopolitan idea. I guess it depends on your location. The residents are probably a bit more stalwart, but if you're closer to the beach then you'll be able to attract passing trade. I guess, the key is making sure your desired demographic know about you.

As far as subway goes, out of all of the chains I actually think it is one of the better ones. It is a shame though that media branding means people will be drawn to it instead of a better but more unusual alternative. However if you're passionate about it, then you'll be ready to keep on trying until you get right the message across.

Good luck

p.s. if you're looking for inspiration I think one of the best take away places in Edinburgh is Khartoum in Bruntsfield quite often I'll endure the awful public transport system on a sunday to go and get my lunch from there, also accross the road is Lupe Pintos, who sell unusual foods.

[Pal of Porty]

Subway has a good reputation as a Franchisor so good luck to the Franchisee who will be trying hard to make his business work in Porty.

I love tapas and will be happy to re-visit Barcelona on your behalf on an all expenses paid research trip. There are are some magical tapas bars over there both cheap and expensive where great ideas could be gleaned.

[Porty]

Agree with Wangi and POP and wish the franchisee well. I wonder how the new owners of kitcheners view this development? Tthey have only been in charge for a couple of months.

Taco Bell would be a good idea or something with a mexican theme. Conducting an audit of what's already heee mayy prove valuable.


Good luck to you both.

(Edited to clear up typos. Can barely see the text on my blackberry. )

[Porty]

Don't believe Subway would require a change of use to retail sandwiches. And in any case that shop used to be a sub post office.

[Sandra]

I love tapas and will be happy to re-visit Barcelona on your behalf on an all expenses paid research trip. There are are some magical tapas bars over there both cheap and expensive where great ideas could be gleaned.

[StarVanMan]

I dont think these ideas will make or break your business, but we find we are often caught short after 6pm without some key ingredients that make our favourite meals, namely creme fraiche, holumi cheese, flageolet beans, fresh herbs!

[Pal of Porty]

.....holumi cheese.......

Yum Yum

[bathst2]

I dont think these ideas will make or break your business, but we find we are often caught short after 6pm without some key ingredients that make our favourite meals, namely creme fraiche, holumi cheese, flageolet beans, fresh herbs!

You can get all these at scotmid!
i think a place selling decent pasta would do well with kids at lunch times...but beware the rubbish problem!!

[wangi]

On the subject of new food outlets, we have recently become aware of Subway’s plans to open a takeaway shop on the site previously occupied by Klaze (High Street near Kitchener’s Deli).

Obviously the subway franchise plans fell through, and the site was re-advertised.

I see the premises at 121 Portobello High Street are now the subject of a planning application 11/01667/FUL for change of use to cafe:

The premises (currently used as a retail unit) will be used as a cafe, which will have a full kitchen
for the preparation and supply of hot foods. This will require an oven to be installed, microwave, dish
washing machine, work surfaces etc. Certain foods will be available to take away, but the principal
business will be on site

[Bob Jefferson]

The applicant, Mr Christopher Condie has registered the domain name cafemercurius.com

[Pal of Porty]

That's going to make a sweet shop, the Deli and a cafe all in a row!

[Epykat]

You'll never make it to work!

[cafemercurius]

hello folks,

it's good to see a community so active in local affairs, and is something we are really looking forward to getting involved in when we open.

Our cafe will be more tea room than cafe, selling baked goods cakes, tray bakes, cupcakes, a range of teas and some lovely coffee. We also plan on having a breakfast and lunch menu of an Asian/American fusion, think noodle dishes or homemade burgers . We feel that there is space for something like this in Portobello, but, taking a leaf from the thread originators book, perhaps the members feel differently?

It has come to our attention that there are some business owners in the community who, rightly are passionate about there business but, are already trying to campaign against us opening. I hope the explanation of our products and services will go some way to alleviating a portion of their fears, but would welcome suggestions on what we can do to work with the locals business community.

Our hope is that we can integrate into the local community, get involved and active, help support local activities, open the cafe space to local group meetings (if there is a requirement for it), book groups, film nights, art work. It's something we feel passionate about (my grandfather George Condie was an local artist in Muirhouse, and recently was exhibited in the community center it meant a lot to see his work finally on display).

we are certainly not a big chain or franchise.

Cheers,

[Porty]

Hi Chris and the best of luck to you and your new venture.

As a fellow business owner (non food) I admire anyone brave enough to invest in Portobello High Street. Hope you've done your sums right.

The site is quite good, high visibility but on the "wrong" side of the High Street. A lot of windows, which can be good or bad but there must be lots of scope for outside tables and chairs. Especially on the Rosefield corner which will get the sunshine for longer periods of the day than the Deli does.

From the layout plan you have 33sqm of customer service area. What internal seating capacity are you envisaging?

http://www.ehow.com/how_5020199_calcula ... tings.html

I love the internet. Seems like the tea room fits the formula well, 43% kitchen etc 57% seating in 33sqm or 335sq ft.

33 seats if banquet, 22 if casual and 16 if fine dining.

[bathst2]

That's going to make a sweet shop, the Deli and a cafe all in a row!

what sweetshop?

[Bazza]

The shop to the left of Kitcheners is going to be a sweet shop. That'll hurt the one on Bath Street

[cafemercurius]

Thanks Porty,

re getting my sums right, you and me both!

It's good to hear from other local business owners, i certainly hope business is good.

And thanks for the link to the layout website, the plan we submitted was initially drawn up by ourselves in the hope of avoiding architect costs until we get feed back from the council.

we plan to have space for up 20 covers with buggy space, possibly an area for the wee ones to make a mess...but that's still only a thought at the moment.

[Epykat]

Plenty of room for another sit in cafe! It's always difficult getting a seat anywhere round about lunchtime because of the schools coming out. Any chance though that you could have a child free hour/day/week (sort of like a happy hour for people who like to have a tea/scone in peace )

[paletoecosse]

This is the oddest request I have ever heard in the UK ... kids already are not welcome in many places ... restaurants ... weddings ... 'NO BALL GAMES' designated areas ... I would suggest the Black Hill to enjoy a tea with a butter biscuit in peace.

[Pal of Porty]

The shop to the left of Kitcheners is going to be a sweet shop. That'll hurt the one on Bath Street

It may well do but at least it has forced them into a much overdue paint job!

[Makaveli]

Like they are going to have an hour where there are no kids!!!!

You'll be wanting a minorities free day on the Hight Street next!!!!

[Epykat]

What a great idea! I've already asked the manager of Morrison's to consider a child free day on a Sunday

[paletoecosse]

We wonder what he replied to you ... )

[Epykat]

Actually, he said if he thought he could get away with it he would consider it - seeing as how there were three children rampaging round the shop playing tig at the time and upsetting the hungover shoppers.

[Porty]

Thanks Porty,

re getting my sums right, you and me both!

Fortunately, in terms of cafe's and restaurants you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There are plenty who have tried before you. A key indicator to look at is the rent/rates ratio to anticipated turnover. It seems to be widely recognised that when rent and rates hit 12% of turnover it becomes difficult to make a profit. Having previoulsy run a sandwich bar (not in Edinburgh) i found it a useful calculation. Prior to opening I obvioulsy didn't know what the turnover would be but I did know what the rent and rates were going to cost. From memory they were about £18k so at 12% I would have to turnover £150,000k to have a reasonable chance of turning a profit. (there was no VAT on the rent). If a cafe has 20 seats, that works out at £7500 per annum per seat, 16 seats £9375. Of course you can anaylse that figure in various ways, like turnover per day or even per hour. These figures can give you comfort or otherwise.

As an aside; in the US, based on thousands of outlets, they say that a restaurant will never get busier than its fifth month of trading. Unless there is some fundamental change, like increasing capacity or longer opening hours.

It almost goes without saying that staffing is critical too. if you can design the place to run with just one member of staff during quiet periods you will maximise profitability.

[wangi]

Was surprised at the Portobello Community Council meeting last night there were a few seriously talking about objecting to this planning application. In the end the community council is going to send in a letter of comment...

[Makaveli]

What were there reasons for objecting?