Closure of Wilson's grocer - How can we save the High St?

Gordon Mackenzie · Post by **Gordon Mackenzie** » 24 Mar 2010, 15:07

It was sad to see closure of Wilson's Grocer in the High Street - a shop which tried to do things right by sourcing products locally. It is particularly sad to read the letter, posted in the window by the shop owners, outlining the obstacles they feel they have had to face in doing business. (See Below)

There are already a number of empty shops on the high street. If it becomes a ghost street, it will a drastic reduction in the quality of life in Portobello.

What can we do about? Well, we can support our local shops, many of which may only be surviving by a shoestring.

Perhaps we need a marketing strategy for the High Street and related areas. That could include anything from doing up shopfronts, repairing and reinstalling coloured shop awnings to give the street a unique look, holding a weekly/monthly antique/bricabrac market , possibly on Rosefield Street, encouraging new shops which we thing will do well to come to Portobello (See thread earlier http://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?t=4791).

What do you think?

Who would provide the leadership on this? Community Council? Or should we form a Portobello Chamber of Commerce made up of local business and interested parties?

<a href="http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy20 ... rocer1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy20 ... rocer1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Post by **wangi** » 24 Mar 2010, 18:09

Gordon Mackenzie wrote:What can we do about?

What can the businesses do about it?

They really need to compete with the competition. That competition is supermarkets who are open longer hours, in some cases 24 hours (ASDA at The Jewel, redeveloped Tesco in Musselburgh will be).

How can I shop at a business which isn't open when I am able to shop? A shop which is closing at least an hour before I finish work?

L/

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 24 Mar 2010, 19:13

I think that the Council is being used as a bit of a scapegoat here. The fact is that Portobello is only able to sustain one greengrocer and we had two. And if you want to buy organic (and/or shop late) then it's Scotmid.

allaboardtheskylark · Post by **allaboardtheskylark** » 24 Mar 2010, 23:06

Totally disagree about the Council. Portobello is not the only place to suffer due to disruption, it is about time the CoEC actually listened to those people attempting to earn an income in this city.

Contracts never seem to be completed on time. The delayed roadworks on Dalkeith Road was costing one shopkeeper 50% of their turnover and they have still not recovered.

If Wilson's are blaming disruption, I am sure they have good reason to do so. They knew their business and no doubt could prove the downturn in their fortunes matched the disruption on their front door.

Apologies are due and should be given from those responsible.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 24 Mar 2010, 23:36

The roadworks/disruption must surely be partly to blame Bob? Portobello has managed to sustain the two fruit/veg shops side by side for years. I'm really sad that it's Wilson's who had to go - at least you got a welcome, a bit of banter and good service. Shame.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 24 Mar 2010, 23:47

I suppose that if they were finding trading conditions tough anyway then it wouldn't take much to tip the balance. But to lay the entire blame on the Council for the failure of the business is a cop out. People didn't suddenly stop shopping there because there was some disruption to the pavement.

allaboardtheskylark · Post by **allaboardtheskylark** » 25 Mar 2010, 05:28

The danger for Portobello now is the loss of choice. The simple view would be to expect all the trade to flood to the other shop thereby sustaining it as a business. Perhaps this may not be the case. Where choice is reduced the shopping "experience" is not as attractive. Then the whole area suffers. Remember the 5 shoe shops in Portobello?

It was not just the roadworks that hit Portobello though. I recall the fuss about the bus routes being changed? It was suggested the many OAP's who resided on the 12 route, many who were ex-Portobello residents could get the bus to Musselburgh, then the 26 to Portobello.

Many got the bus to Musselburgh then did their shopping there and got the bus home. Good old LRT.

The difficulty for these small businesses is the low margin on their turnover. If they sell perishables they have to be restocked whether sold or not. The fixed costs of rates, rent lighting etc don't change, so when they hit a downturn they need help to regain business.

The worry know is if we get a new store up at BIG W, how many more customers will Portobello High Street lose?

Puerto bella · Post by **Puerto bella** » 25 Mar 2010, 09:41

I used to shop between Wilson's and Banana Republic but the basic fact of the matter for me was that Banana Republic became more competative and every time we go in mini Pb gets given a banana and has done since he was in the buggy.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 25 Mar 2010, 10:41

I shopped in Wilsons and like Epykat says, it was always good to have a welcome and a bit of banter. Times are tough and it is always sad to see a business close but I cannot accept that the Council are wholly to blame. A contributory factor - possibly, the entire reason - no chance.

PS If anyone wants to blame the 'powers that be' for business being tough, try running a mortgage business!

rmolehusband · Post by **rmolehusband** » 25 Mar 2010, 14:42

Bob Jefferson wrote:I think that the Council is being used as a bit of a scapegoat here.

I agree. I'm genuinely sorry to see another business on Porty High Street close, but the very sad fact is that small shops such as Wilsons are closing all over the place and I can't really see how the cooncil is to blame. If the pavements were all cracked and full of potholes or the bus shelters falling down, the traders would be blaming the cooncil for that too. You can have the repairs done cheap or quick - choose one.

Go in to Scotmidget on a Saturday, when the greengrocer(s) are open, look in the baskets and you'll see a fair bit of fruit and veg. I don't know why people are buying it there - convenience, price, choice - but that is lost business for the high street.

As for promoting Porty, what would work for me would be one late night a week as, like many I suspect, we can only shop Saturdays. Another option that would appeal to me would be a local loyalty scheme - get a porty pound for every so many you spend, spend your porty pounds in the same businesses (so long as the cafes are in on the deal).

p.s. got an absolutely lovely bit of (black?) bream in the fishmongers on Saturday, ugly looking fish but utterly delicious.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 01 Apr 2010, 19:35

Don't you think that the EN should be rewarding us in some way for all the stories we have supplied them with over the years?

Greengrocer shutting up shop after 25 years blames roadworks misery

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 01 Apr 2010, 19:40

rmolehusband wrote:As for promoting Porty, what would work for me would be one late night a week as, like many I suspect, we can only shop Saturdays. Another option that would appeal to me would be a local loyalty scheme - get a porty pound for every so many you spend, spend your porty pounds in the same businesses (so long as the cafes are in on the deal).

Two excellent ideas. I think a lot of people would welcome extended opening hours one day a week, even if meant that those shops closed on a Monday to compensate. (Both the butchers and the fishmonger already do, so it's a bit of a dead shopping day anyway). The local currency idea is one that already works elsewhere and is something that PEDAL may well be considering.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 01 Apr 2010, 20:54

We had a loyalty scheme before. What happened to it?
As far as pavement replacement goes, I can't believe they're doing it again! We've only been in this house just over 3 years and the pavements outside our old house on the High Street were replaced a couple of years before we moved. Surely a pavement should last longer than 5 years?

Post by **wangi** » 04 Apr 2010, 22:46

allaboardtheskylark wrote:It was not just the roadworks that hit Portobello though. I recall the fuss about the bus routes being changed? It was suggested the many OAP's who resided on the 12 route, many who were ex-Portobello residents could get the bus to Musselburgh, then the 26 to Portobello.

Many got the bus to Musselburgh then did their shopping there and got the bus home. Good old LRT.

An interesting point - a "network effect". Certainly something to consider regarding a potential hovercraft link and the positive impact that could have. Likewise perhaps a general presumption in support of development makes sense - the more people who live in Portobello then the bigger the market for produce and services in Portobello.

allaboardtheskylark wrote:The worry know is if we get a new store up at BIG W, how many more customers will Portobello High Street lose?

I guess that Portobello High Street moved up to Fort Kinnaird a few years back for many people. Regarding that site in particular there are few potential operators. You can probably discount Tesco (much expanded site at Musselburgh being developed), Asda (adjacent site), Morrisons (nearby), Co-op / Scotmid / Somerfield (perhaps too big given recent alignment toward local sites?) and M&S... So that leaves... Waitrose? Sainsbury?

Whole Foods Market would be an interesting addition (shop there a bit in the US), but completely a no-go given their downsizing in the UK.

chessMate · Post by **chessMate** » 09 Apr 2010, 23:21

Hi I have just moved to Portobello nearly three weeks and think its great living here I also work in the area and surrounding area's I am a Social Care Worker visiting the elderly in there homes and just resently was shopping for a client and over stayed my welcome in the parking area out side the town hall and got fined accordingly which I think is rediculous considering it was a free parking area and I got fined the same as if I had over stayed in a paid parking area but both my wife and I do support our local shops

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 10 Apr 2010, 12:55

The pavements outside our shop are really terrible and we see at least one person a week tripping up - so I think that that sorting the pavements has been a really good idea. It also means that as the surface is now so smooth I can get up a really good head of steam when I cycle along the newly paved bits.

Bazza · Post by **Bazza** » 12 Apr 2010, 16:37

chessMate wrote:it was a free parking area and I got fined the same as if I had over stayed in a paid parking area

If it was a free-parking area with no parking restrictions, then you can contest the fine with the council.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 12 Apr 2010, 21:10

Pal of Porty wrote: It also means that as the surface is now so smooth I can get up a really good head of steam when I cycle along the newly paved bits.

You cycle on the pavement? No wonder they're in a state

PS - welcome to Portobello and the forum Chessmate!

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 12 Apr 2010, 22:53

The parking outside the Town Hall has a time limit, not sure if it's 20 mins or 30 mins but it's up on the signs, think it's to stop cars paking there all day.

I gave up trying to shop in Scotmid a long time ago. The only thing I was keen on buying there was the Cauldron Foods pate but it was not worth the wait at the checkouts for that one item

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 13 Apr 2010, 11:16

In all the years I've been driving and living here I have never managed to get a parking space outside the Town Hall - even for 20 minutes

Post by **wangi** » 14 Apr 2010, 00:36

Epykat wrote:In all the years I've been driving and living here I have never managed to get a parking space outside the Town Hall - even for 20 minutes

I never have a problem; but then again the shops are never open then either

(except those selling booze of course)

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 14 Apr 2010, 16:43

I was down in North Berwick for a dander last Sunday and loads of the shops were open - even the Charity Shops........yes - on a Sunday! Cafe's were open as well and the High Street was really busy. I know it's a chicken and egg situation but it would be great if Portobello was like that on a Sunday.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 15 Apr 2010, 14:46

Epykat wrote:I was down in North Berwick for a dander last Sunday and loads of the shops were open - even the Charity Shops........yes - on a Sunday! Cafe's were open as well and the High Street was really busy. I know it's a chicken and egg situation but it would be great if Portobello was like that on a Sunday.

Why don't you start a disloyalty scheme for North Berwick shoppers and the cafe set. Surely it won't take much to persuade them to come to Porty on a Sunday.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 16 Apr 2010, 17:11

We could run a ferrying service. Couple of rowing boats going back and forwards or each of us could go to NB in our cars and persuade people to come to Portobello with us for the day. Obviously, they'd be bored after 10 minutes because everything's shut on on a Sunday, but we could do some window shopping with them and pass a flask around. I think it might work.

Bob Jefferson · Post by **Bob Jefferson** » 16 Apr 2010, 18:02

I think I see a flaw in your plan. I imagine that N Berwick would retaliate with their own flotilla, nay armada, of sea vessels and round up everyone on the High Street. Once our people have experienced a Sunday in N Berwick they may never come back.

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 17 Apr 2010, 16:56

What's going on? High Street this afternoon - Allan's shut, Opticians shut, curtain shop shut, Charity shops shutting at 4.30, an absolutely dead Craft Fair.............is everybody trapped abroad?

SoupDragon · Post by **SoupDragon** » 18 Apr 2010, 00:11

I've noticed Allans shut on a few Saturday afternoons now
Is it open Sat am?

Epykat · Post by **Epykat** » 18 Apr 2010, 10:54

They've been shut on a Saturday afternoon for ages now which is a bit inconvenient!

Lambie · Post by **Lambie** » 26 Apr 2010, 07:32

I hadn't been shopping in Wilson's for long and it's closure really took me by surprise. There was always good chat and sometimes cooking tips. I'll definitely miss them.

wangi wrote:
Gordon Mackenzie wrote:What can we do about?
What can the businesses do about it?

They really need to compete with the competition. That competition is supermarkets who are open longer hours, in some cases 24 hours (ASDA at The Jewel, redeveloped Tesco in Musselburgh will be).

L/

I disagree with the idea that small businesses need to compete with large supermarkets. Don't they need to offer a different service and side step the competition? Small shops can offer a more personal service or specialise in products not sold by the retail Goliaths. Nobody in ASDA ever offered me advice on how to cook unfamiliar veg mostly because they don't sell okra or chard. Independant retailers can choose to play music that doesn't irritate and lighting that doesn't glare.

More sympathetic opening hours would be a good thing though.

If Portobello had a High Street that included more progressive niche stores, that were unrivaled across Edinburgh, shoppers from throughout the city would come here. The extra footfall would help sustain the existing shops whose services are focused more on local customers.

Broughton Street's Real Foods or Studio One in Morningside are good examples of Edinburgh businesses that people travel across the city for. Both could be said to be in competition with larger retailers but both continue to prosper because they offer more personal shopping. In Studio One design icons are sold next to locally made furniture and Real Foods offers a relaxed atmosphere and knowledgable staff. Habitat and Holland & Barrett can't compete with them! Size isn't everything and a wee Portobello High Street could be our strength rather than a weakness.

I think we need strong, niche retailers selling quality products and providing friendly personal service. Friday Street Antiques, Kitcheners and Findlay's the butcher are all great examples of this.

Puerto bella · Post by **Puerto bella** » 26 Apr 2010, 22:09

On a similar note - a really good children's shoe shop like Maddie and Mark's . People travel far and wide to get to them.

Lambie · Post by **Lambie** » 27 Apr 2010, 20:33

I had a look at Maddie and Mark's website http://www.maddieandmarks.co.uk/. I think that's exactly the kind of shop that would improve our High Street. Come down to Porty with the kids, buy shoes, walk them in along the Prom, stop in up at Red's for a family lunch.

New, innovative shops would enrich Portobello and it could become a great setting for a family day out shopping. [/url]

seanie · Post by **seanie** » 27 Apr 2010, 20:45

I think that kind of shop would struggle to survive.

Puerto bella · Post by **Puerto bella** » 27 Apr 2010, 22:04

Strongly disagree Seanie- for 5 years I've trecked to their Marchmont then Bruntsfield shops - along with many many other Porty parents who want choice for their money rather than what's on offer in this area in terms of kids shoes.

Post by **wangi** » 27 Apr 2010, 23:10

elkanary wrote:I disagree with the idea that small businesses need to compete with large supermarkets

The opening hours were my main point - I agree with your post. No matter how great the shops are - or could could - and level of service etc; it's still impossible to use them if they're closed.

But in saying that... If you do talk to people in the "big shops" they tend to be helpful people much like anywhere else.

Lambie · Post by **Lambie** » 28 Apr 2010, 09:23

wangi wrote:
elkanary wrote:I disagree with the idea that small businesses need to compete with large supermarkets
The opening hours were my main point - I agree with your post. No matter how great the shops are - or could could - and level of service etc; it's still impossible to use them if they're closed.

When I was a kid it felt like late night shopping was a bit of an event. I'm sure it was Thursday night. My mum'd nip round all the shops and leave me in John Menzies looking at tapes and comics. 24 hour convenience has killed that but maybe a united High Street could bring it back. Would opening later on a Thursday allow them to stay open later at no extra expense? Are there any shop keepers on here to comment?

I had a look along the High Street on Google Maps Street View (I've got a bit of time on my hands). The images are a few years old but I'm sure there's five or six, possibly more businesses closed down in that time. It makes for an interesting half hour.

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