Phoenix House to close?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 05 Oct 2004, 18:46

Are you sure about this Porty? I emailed Maureen Child but she doesn't seem to have heard anything. Can anyone else shed any light on this?

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 05 Oct 2004, 18:57

Poppy made some veiled reference to some of the staff transferring to RoS. I'll ask around tomorrow and see if there's anything in that.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 05 Oct 2004, 18:59

I am certain, next April is the target date. There may not have been an official announcement but I would put Ras's VAT refund on it.

dccairns · Post by **dccairns** » 05 Oct 2004, 19:08

It's true. A member of staff told me last week that both Phoenix House and the Job Centre will be closing, maybe within six months.

Check-out_Chick · Post by **Check-out_Chick** » 05 Oct 2004, 23:00

yeah i heard sumthing at my work about that

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Oct 2004, 09:32

The Job Centre?

Why? she asks anxiously. Apart from the fact the staff in there are very nice, where on earth are they expecting people to sign on? I speak as a contract worker, who has a periodic need to sign on. Or are they going to build a new one - on the Scottish Power site, perhaps. (

I'm being ironic about the last bit)

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Oct 2004, 11:13

Jay wrote:The Job Centre?

Why? she asks anxiously. Apart from the fact the staff in there are very nice, where on earth are they expecting people to sign on? I speak as a contract worker, who has a periodic need to sign on. Or are they going to build a new one - on the Scottish Power site, perhaps. ( I'm being ironic about the last bit)

Gordon Brown announced 100,000 Civill Servant jobs will go some months ago. It may be a cynical view but I think Job Centres have largely served their purpose, Technology has done them in as well as a strong economy..

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Oct 2004, 11:21

Porty wrote:It may be a cynical view but I think Job Centres have largely served their purpose, Technology has done them in as well as a strong economy..

I am slightly bemused here

(not an uncommon state, I admit). Is this pre-supposing total employment for the whole able-to-work population?

(What was the last census estimate?)

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Oct 2004, 11:52

Don't know what the census said but unemployment must be almost as low as it can go in order to keep the economy strong. A strong economy needs a level of unemployment. Job Centres are dated in terms of how people go about looking for work, especially for those people who actually want to find it. There are exceptions, like your good self.

I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Where will the redundant Job Centre employees go to look for worK?

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Oct 2004, 12:31

Porty wrote:Where will the redundant Job Centre employees go to look for worK?

That was one of my thoughts, I have to say, particularly as I know the Portobello staff, and they have always been friendly, supportive and helpful.

Porty wrote:A strong economy needs a level of unemployment.

So how do the poor b**gg**s who ARE unemployed support themselves and their families? (and me, when I'm between jobs!) I may like computers, but I've NAE faith in most government systems, so if the proposal is to pay benefit by computer ........

Hrrrr!

Porty wrote:Job Centres are dated in terms of how people go about looking for work

Admittedly, I usually pick up my work through former colleagues, or on our profession's online job-search site, but there must still be a lot of people who rely on a central, local, real place that employers send details to.

As far as I can see, it will all end in tears - and not the tears of the people who had the idea in the first place.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Oct 2004, 13:53

Jay wrote:
Porty wrote:A strong economy needs a level of unemployment.
So how do the poor b**gg**s who ARE unemployed support themselves and their families? (and me, when I'm between jobs!)

I don't know how they will support themselves but I gues having a Job Centre in Porty is not critical to the survival process. I do know is that a strong and growthful economy needs unemployment at its core.

A rather simplistic way of putting it is; If no-one is poor or poorly off then the dirty jobs don't get done. Its vital that we have a batch of what you call poor people. I want to make it clear that this is not my opinion, its a cold hard economic fact.

Is the main purpose of Job Centres is to keep an eye on the long term unemployed and attempt to keep a lid on benefit fraud?

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Oct 2004, 14:31

Porty wrote:Is the main purpose of Job Centres is to keep an eye on the long term unemployed and attempt to keep a lid on benefit fraud?

I'm afraid I, in my naivete, had always thought their main purpose was to help us FIND work again (or for the first time, depending on your previous luck), and help us claim our benefits only in the meantime.

Porty wrote:If no-one is poor or poorly off then the dirty jobs don't get done. Its vital that we have a batch of what you call poor people. I want to make it clear that this is not my opinion, its a cold hard economic fact.

Yerss, we-ell - by this stage in the millennia, we should have machines to do all the dirty jobs. It's vital that they are done, but it is absolutely not vital that "poor people" do 'em.

Besides, not everyone who is without a regular wage is able-bodied and work-fit. Assuming that THEY are still allowed to receive benefits, are they going to lose a local contact and have to deal with a monolithic centrality? So it would seem ..............

On which note, I notice the Jock's Lodge post-office has been shut down .........

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Oct 2004, 16:03

Jay wrote:
Porty wrote:Is the main purpose of Job Centres is to keep an eye on the long term unemployed and attempt to keep a lid on benefit fraud?
Jay responded:

I'm afraid I, in my naivete, had always thought their main purpose was to help us FIND work again (or for the first time, depending on your previous luck), and help us claim our benefits only in the meantime.

You may percieve it as semantic but I think I may be confusing purpose and objective.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Oct 2004, 16:10

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 06 Oct 2004, 16:40

Jay, you correctly identified the purpose:

Jay wrote:I'm afraid I, in my naivete, had always thought their main purpose was to help us FIND work again (or for the first time, depending on your previous luck), and help us claim our benefits only in the meantime.

Whereas I said: "Is the main purpose of Job Centres is to keep an eye on the long term unemployed and attempt to keep a lid on benefit fraud?"

I should have said "Is the main objective...."

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Oct 2004, 17:13

Oh, right. Yes. Got you! Well, all I can say, Porty Job Centre fulfill what I see as their purpose excellently, while probably not pursuing the government's objective - or maybe I shouldn't say that too loudly! I don't want to get them into trouble! I mean - fancy actually FINDING people work, and being NICE!

bellybabe · Post by **bellybabe** » 06 Oct 2004, 18:27

I've only ever been in Porty job centre once, where I had to talk to some rather unhelpful and patronising woman (a specialist, though - not one of the ordinary staff who were indeed helpful) who told me lots of stuff I already knew and seemed rather non-plussed that i already knew it. I must say that, apart from the signing on lark, job centres have indeed outlived their natural life span. I don't know of anybody in this day and age who uses a job centre to actually try to get a job, with the sole exception of some people on JSA who are forced by the system to go after terrible jobs just to prove they're trying. (Ah, the voice of bitter experience shines through!

)

It didn't make sense to me though that we needed a job centre and Phoenix house - i always thought the two should kind of go together. I used to have to go to Phoenix House once a year to get my student loan deferment form stamped. I noticed that how I felt in there depended very much on what time of day and wek I went in but the first time I went there after moving here I was stunned to meet such friendly and helpful staff. In sheffield I used to have to go to the unfriendliest place in the world (actually, the job centre where they all dance to Hot Stuff in the Full Monty). It's a shame that PH is closing.

Like Jay, I do wonder what people who need these places are supposed to do if they both go, though.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 06 Oct 2004, 19:05

On a UK basis there has been considerable investment in trying to modernise Job Centres in line with todays society. Working to the maxim that if you treat your customer like a 4th class citizen he/she will behave like one, plans were introduced to modernise the environment, smartly dress the staff and most importantly make the offices open plan. This was fiercely opposed by the unions on the grounds of safety (1 member of staff in Wales was stabbed during one of the pilot tests) and led to strike action. Not quite sure what the latest position is right now though.

I do know that a male staff member working in one of the trial open plan offices (in England) took his employers to a tribunal on the grounds of sexual discrimination, because part of the new uniform in the open plan environment, for men, but not women, was to wear a tie.

So whatever they are trying to do - it is certainly not as easy at looks!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 06 Oct 2004, 19:23

I worked for a short time in the Job Centre in South St Andrew's St, around 1992 I think. It was during the summer and I was on 'front-line' duty, dealing directly with people who had walked in off the street looking for a job. It was very busy, with a constant queue of people waiting to be seen but good fun. However, we didn't have to deal with benefits and I'm sure that's a much more difficult job altogether.

Both Lawrence and Maureen have been making enquiries about this issue. Gavin Strang's office has confirmed that they have been notified that Phoenix House is to close, along with the Job Centres in Portobello and elsewhere. Gavin has written to the District Manager opposing the proposals.

How many people are employed between these two offices? Will there be redundancies? How will this affect the local economy? Think of the knock-on effects for local sandwich bars etc.

Post by **wangi** » 06 Oct 2004, 19:33

Bob wrote:How many people are employed between these two offices? Will there be redundancies? How will this affect the local economy? Think of the knock-on effects for local sandwich bars etc.

Or think about the effect on your, and my, pocket because of our inefficient civil service? British industry has "worked harder, smarter" for years now - the public sector should do likewise.

Technology now means that a lot of the traditional role of the job centre can now be done on-line or on the phone...

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 07 Oct 2004, 13:33

Bob wrote:Both Lawrence and Maureen have been making enquiries about this issue. .

Which begs the questions:

a) Why are both of them making enquiries?

b) Why doesn't one of them look on POL?

Bob wrote:Gavin Strang's office has confirmed that they have been notified that Phoenix House is to close, along with the Job Centres in Portobello and elsewhere. Gavin has written to the District Manager opposing the proposals .

Why is Gavin Strang's office not copying in LM an MC on what is clearly a Portobello issue? If he is, why are they not reading it?

Why does it take 3 elected representatives and staff from the same party, especially when one of them already knows the answer?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 07 Oct 2004, 15:43

Well I think Maureen and Lawrence do work very closely and copy each other in on what's happening. Like you, I would have thought that Gavin Strang's office would have been a bit quicker off the mark in informing local councillors so that they didn't hear the story second hand.

They are certainly aware of this thread as I always give them the link in question when asking for their reaction.

Pal of Porty · Post by **Pal of Porty** » 07 Oct 2004, 17:09

Bob wrote:Both Lawrence and Maureen have been making enquiries about this issue. Gavin Strang's office has confirmed that they have been notified that Phoenix House is to close, along with the Job Centres in Portobello and elsewhere.

Sounds to me like they are making enquiries about a train that has already left the station!

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 07 Oct 2004, 17:25

Bob wrote:Well I think Maureen and Lawrence do work very closely and copy each other in on what's happening.

To me that's a reason for only one of them making enquiries.

Bob Quote:
"Like you, I would have thought that Gavin Strang's office would have been a bit quicker off the mark in informing local councillors so that they didn't hear the story second hand."

On the other hand maybe Gavin Strang's office expect Lawrence and Maureen to already know what's going on in Portobello? Seen as how they are local Councillors.

Porty · Post by **Porty** » 08 Oct 2004, 13:52

Update; bumped into Maureen in the High Street carrying her swimming stuff and noticed her hair was dry. I said "off swimming?" "you bet" she replied and "i'm determined to capture the raft today".

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 08 Oct 2004, 14:41

I just spoke to someone at Phoenix House. PH currently employs around 60 to 70 people. The Job Centre employs around 15 to 20. Most if not all of the staff are expected to be re-deployed, either within the department or within the Civil Service generally. The closures are part of a large-scale re-organisation to increase efficiency blah blah. Closure planned for end of financial year but may be delayed.

When was Phoenix House built? Anyone know?

Gemini · Post by **Gemini** » 08 Oct 2004, 15:03

Porty wrote:Update; bumped into Maureen in the High Street carrying her swimming stuff and noticed her hair was dry. I said "off swimming?" "you bet" she replied and "i'm determined to capture the raft today".

Sounds as though she's missed the boat then!

CatzVP · Post by **CatzVP** » 18 Oct 2004, 04:38

Pretty sad that PH is closing, I loved working there before I moved to RoS (10 years of hell

) I dont know if they will be transferred to MBH though, from what I hear RoS dont know how long they are staying in Meadowbank for, as the lease is just a little bit expensive!!

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 18 Oct 2004, 06:22

RoS --so bad you emigrated! I've never considered that option.

CatzVP · Post by **CatzVP** » 18 Oct 2004, 06:33

ok now im Intrigued ecm...lol

have you found the cat??? dun DUN DUUUUN!!

I had no choice about the emigration....My wife is Canadian

Well half Canadian/ half Italian! (has a temper but always tells you to have a nice day!!)

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 18 Oct 2004, 06:40

CatzVP wrote:ok now im Intrigued ecm...lol

have you found the cat??? dun DUN DUUUUN!!

Possibly!!!

Having worked there for over 25 years and in the training section for a lot of that time I've seen/got to know a lot of folks.

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 18 Oct 2004, 06:41

In fact, time to go to work right now.

CatzVP · Post by **CatzVP** » 18 Oct 2004, 06:44

Hope that Flexi is ok

is liz L still in training? if so say hi!

rathbone · Post by **rathbone** » 18 Oct 2004, 09:17

Mrs Rathbone used to work at RoS as well, but that was back in the 1970s. The move to Meadowbank is what led us to emigrate.

ecm · Post by **ecm** » 18 Oct 2004, 16:07

CatzVP wrote:Hope that Flexi is ok is liz L still in training? if so say hi!

Tis a small world indeed!
Liz L. is still around but on leave just now - will pass on your regards when I see her next.

Talk Porty ~ Portobello

Phoenix House to close?

Phoenix House to close?

PH to RoS???

Going Going........

Re: Going Going........

hmm....time to look up the personnel list!

Re: hmm....time to look up the personnel list!