The shops thread (was: Empty Shops on Porty High St)

[regent]

agree its a shame about Urban Igloo!

[Puerto bella]

Out of interest how much spontaneous passing trade does a cash generator get?

[Epykat]

I am sitting in my shop which has occupancy costs in excess of £20,000 per annum watching leafleters outside diverting everyone away from the High Street to the Organic Market. Somehow it just does not feel right.

To be fair, I haven't seen them bashing people over the head with an organic marrow, tying them up with hemp and wheeling them to Brighton Place in a wheelbarrow so I'm guessing most folk go of their own accord.

[Makaveli]

Was at the market today for the first time in months and must say I was very disappointed with the number of stalls and variety of things for sale. Didn't seem to be many folk there either.

Can't see us hurrying back.

[Porty]

oops

[Porty]

Out of interest how much spontaneous passing trade does a cash generator get?

Can't speak for cash generator, our operation is quite different. As far as we are concerned; the answer is a lot. Tens of thousands of pounds pa, mutiple. We need it to cover our costs.

Truth is retail depend largely on footfall, the volume of passing people. Portobello High Street , like most other high streets and shopping malls has "prime" pitches, where rents are higher. We operate, have operated for over a year now from one of Porty''s prime retail units, so we do speak through experience.

Generally in retail, the weekend after payday brings a sales spike. In prime Portobello the organic market makes us significantly quieter, the opposite becomes true on the most important sales day of the month. Its a fact. You may imagine otherwise.

There's something not right about that and it is certainly not helping ease the attrition rate of other high street businesses.

[Porty]

I am sitting in my shop which has occupancy costs in excess of £20,000 per annum watching leafleters outside diverting everyone away from the High Street to the Organic Market. Somehow it just does not feel right.

To be fair, I haven't seen them bashing people over the head with an organic marrow, tying them up with hemp and wheeling them to Brighton Place in a wheelbarrow so I'm guessing most folk go of their own accord.

I guess that would be why he described them as leafleters! If there had been bashing, bondage and wheelbarrows at least it would provide a spectacle to amuse, whilst not serving customers.

[Epykat]

I am sitting in my shop which has occupancy costs in excess of £20,000 per annum watching leafleters outside diverting everyone away from the High Street to the Organic Market. Somehow it just does not feel right.

To be fair, I haven't seen them bashing people over the head with an organic marrow, tying them up with hemp and wheeling them to Brighton Place in a wheelbarrow so I'm guessing most folk go of their own accord.

I guess that would be why he described them as leafleters! If there had been bashing, bondage and wheelbarrows at least it would provide a spectacle to amuse, whilst not serving customers.

That was my point - they were leafleting, not press-ganging

[Porty]

IAh so you were simply reinforcing the point forPOP? i misunderstlood.

[Puerto bella]

Pop maybe needs to stand outside with some balloons?

[wangi]

I am sitting in my shop ... watching leafleters outside diverting everyone away from the High Street ...

For what it's worth the High St was busier than the market. It'd be better on High St at bottom of Rosefield.

[Pal of Porty]

Pop maybe needs to stand outside with some balloons?

Absolutely - marketing initiatives certainly help many businesses in these tough times.

[Epykat]

Pop maybe needs to stand outside with some balloons?

I believe his business partner is busy elsewhere on a Saturday

[Grunk]

Perhaps the organic Market would be better suited at the area outside the bank of scotland?
I think there is enough room for it, and it would be bringing business to the high street?

[Porty]

Instinctively that would be better for our type of business over the present situation> I could see it being good for cafe's too. Not sure what the likes of Findlays and Williamsons may have to say.

[Puerto bella]

Pop maybe needs to stand outside with some balloons?

I believe his business partner is busy elsewhere on a Saturday

Purposefully plural

[Mark Cameron]

Couldn't Finlays and Williamsons set up a stall there too for the 1 day a month?

cOULD closing off a stretch of the High Street one day per month (even during the summer months) from the main crossroads to Ramsay place provide a dedicated market space and allow stalls and tables/chairs to be set up while not reducing footfall for local businesses? Think they do this in Las Ramblas, Barcelona.

My own view is that for our high street to be succesful there needs to be something different on offer, something that either draws them to Porty to shop or for residents gives them a product or experience they can't get at the big supermarkets/retail parks.

Unfortunately I have my doubts whether this is achieveable in isolation and feel it would need to be part of a concerted effort on building Porty's image - driven by the community and the City Council. We've a unique location in Edinburgh which is poorly promoted in my view.

[Pal of Porty]

Couldn't Finlays and Williamsons set up a stall there too for the 1 day a month?

cOULD closing off a stretch of the High Street one day per month (even during the summer months) from the main crossroads to Ramsay place provide a dedicated market space and allow stalls and tables/chairs to be set up while not reducing footfall for local businesses? Think they do this in Las Ramblas, Barcelona.

My own view is that for our high street to be succesful there needs to be something different on offer, something that either draws them to Porty to shop or for residents gives them a product or experience they can't get at the big supermarkets/retail parks.

Unfortunately I have my doubts whether this is achieveable in isolation and feel it would need to be part of a concerted effort on building Porty's image - driven by the community and the City Council. We've a unique location in Edinburgh which is poorly promoted in my view.

Great post

[Lambie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-15187358

Community bakery first for Dunbar

The new bakery is being seen as an important step in regenerating Dunbar town centre

A new community-owned bakery in East Lothian is being hailed as a prototype for other Scottish towns looking to revive their high streets.

The Bakery in Dunbar is opening after 300 people raised almost £40,000 through the sale of community shares.

...

[Lambie]

I didn't do a good job with that last post. Not sure about the URL tags at the end. Wanted to add that I only just spotted a piano shop along in Joppa where the tile (I think) shop used to be. This seems like an excellent business for Porty High Street. Even along in Joppa it's still going to feed cafés and maybe the piano shoppers will stop in for a look at Cove, Martha's Attic or Urban Igloo (please find a new shop in Porty).

What if all the charity shops got together and agreed on specialities. One sells retro clothing, another books, furniture, bric-a-brac. One of the things that drew me to Portobello was the Transition Town status. Charity shops are very Green so maybe we should make a feature of the many we have. Could Pedal help them unite? Actually, there must be loads of good stuff hanging about in everyone's cupboards. We could all have a clear out and de-clutter. Free up some space and get some premium Stuff back in circulation. Make Portobello a destination High Street for discerning charity shoppers and do some good work for charity at the same time.

[Epykat]

Great ideas from Lambie and McDryburn. It would be brilliant to see things like that happening here

[Porty]

They are good ideas and well done for a bit of lateral thinking.

Generally speaking, there needs to a downward adjustment to rentals in suburban high streets. It is happening but progress is slow.

Also, funding for start up retailers is a very hard to come by.

[Lambie]

I agree. I work away from home far too often. I'd love a shop in Porty. I think it'd be a great way to earn a living and opportunity to be part of and contribute to an excellent community. The rates and rental cost on the shops I've looked at make the idea quite difficult to take any further.

[rmolehusband]

Generally speaking, there needs to a downward adjustment to rentals in suburban high streets. It is happening but progress is slow.

Do you mean rent or business rates/cooncil charges? If rent, then why are they taking so long to come down? With so many empty properties it is surely a renters market, the owners cant afford to have them sitting empty with no money coming in. Do market forces not work with retail rents?

[Porty]

Generally speaking, there needs to a downward adjustment to rentals in suburban high streets. It is happening but progress is slow.

Do you mean rent or business rates/cooncil charges? If rent, then why are they taking so long to come down? With so many empty properties it is surely a renters market, the owners cant afford to have them sitting empty with no money coming in. Do market forces not work with retail rents?

I'm not an expert but I have owned and rented High Street shops for the best part of 30 years. In my opinion business rates for smallish shops are affordable. The small business rates relief scheme can mean that many shops effectively pay a token amount in rates.

Rents: Market forces do play a part but there is often a lag. Most leases have "upward only" rent reviews, rents cannot go down or only when a lease runs out. Empty shops are often owned by pension funds (private or institutional) so the rental income goes into a pension pot not directly to someone's pocket. This breeds a lack of urgency to rent. And pension funds must rent at market rate or above to continue benefittng from tax breaks. And don't forget that just because a shop is empty it doesn't mean the rent is not being paid.

. Surveyors are often reluctant to down value commercial rents, The company they work for often manage property portfolios on behalf of clients and don't want to be seen as bearers of bad tidings. It takes a while for the market to swallow its medicine.

Rents are determined by something called the "Zone A" rate. Zone A is usually the 30ft from the shop window running towards the rear of the shop. So most shops in porty are entirely Zone A, they are less than 30ft deep. If a shop is 50ft deep the rearmost 20ft are classed as "Zone B" and the tenant pays a fraction of the Zone A rate on that space, same apllies to basements etc.

In Portobello and common in most retail centres there are prime pitches where shops are the most prominent and in demand. Shops in prime pitch rarely lie empty for long. In Porty the prime pitch is from the charity shop at bath street to the police station. Greggs also have a prime pitch and the central bar less so. (rumours abound that starbucks looked at the central as a location) Rents in less prominent shops take their lead from the Zone A rate in prime.

Investors often own mutiple outlets within a strip of shops. One company owns at least 4 of porty's prime pitches. And In order to continually maintain the value of their portfolios they need strong Zone A rents per square foot. If they rent one property at a lower rate per square foot, it immediately downvalues the rest of the properties. Shopping Centres are desperate to always increase Zone A rents because every increase they secure mutiplies the value of their investment.

Shopping centre landlords would rather shops lay empty than reduce the Zone A rate. it is common for landlords to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds in "key money" cash to tenants who agree to accept the Zone A rental. A friend of mine is opening a coffee shop in livingston. The landlords are paying him big bucks and a 1 year rent free period, if he signs the lease at their going rate. Lets say the rent should be £100k per annum. The landlords are effectively giving him 3 years rent free (counting the cash he is getting). Rather than reduce the rent to £40k for 5 years they hand over lots of cash and maintain a "false" value for the neighbouring units.

So its by no means a pure market.

[wangi]

Admin: a number of posts split off to Takeaways, restaurants & Community Council representations thread.

New cafe / restaurant opened up on Portobello High St - Butternut Squash "the place to chill"

[magbagpuss]

Just been to The Butternut Squash for the first time . Will not be the last . Lovely couple called Keith and Kay running it . Both of us had the breakfast plate and were well impressed , definately no cheap sausages or bacon here. Free refill with coffee too . Took home made meringue with toffee sauce to heat for later !!! Happy days . Looked at menu and it's quite diverese with lots of specials . Daily menu had among other things Piri-piri smoked mackerel on a warm potato salad. Mr Magabgpuss is already planning next visit . Let us know what you think if you pay a visit ?

[Bob Jefferson]

For info, Butternut Squash is offering friends of Portobello Online a special deal. Pay for one 2 course meal costing £6 and get another free. The deal is for Mon - Fri until 20 December. Just quote 'porty website 1'.

[Epykat]

For info, Butternut Squash is offering friends of Portobello Online a special deal. Pay for one 2 course meal costing £6 and get another free. The deal is for Mon - Fri until 20 December. Just quote 'porty website 1'.

If any of us were still friends we could have made that our Xmas do!

[Bob Jefferson]

The offer is for 2 people. You must have one friend left, surely?

[Epykat]

The offer is for 2 people. You must have one friend left, surely?

You're right. I'll go with Betty!

[Porty]

Good luck Annie, we'll be in soon to relieve you of tea!

after you`ve been would you drop by tp and let us know if its an open plan design.?


All the best Annie.

[Epykat]

Best of luck with the Cafe.

after you`ve been would you drop by tp and let us know if its an open plan design.?

Come on now Porty, even I'm slightly embarrassed by that shameless (and rather unnecessary) dig.

Any chance we could have a thread that you don't hijack?

[Pal of Porty]

I see there is already a new shop in the vacated Urban Igloo site - Get your outfits in time for Christmas ladies!

[Porty]

Best of luck with the Cafe.

after you`ve been would you drop by tp and let us know if its an open plan design.?

Come on now Porty, even I'm slightly embarrassed by that shameless (and rather unnecessary) dig.

I was joking and I feel I can safely assume that Epykat knows that!!