New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Mark Cameron]

Betty you seem to be missing (or ignoring) a key thing in that the court listened the arguements and have ruled on it. Why can't you just let it go. Sometimes in life things go against you - PPAG need to show some dignity and move on.

And maybe you need to start showing a bit of respect to other people with different opinions. What kind of example do you think you're showing your children? Do you really want them to get the message that you get what you want by making a lot of noise and ridiculing people who don't share your ideas/beliefs. Your intolerance is deeply disturbing to many people on both sides of this debate.

I totally respect people's rights to have different opinions Betty. We live in a democracy and have a legal system. When the majority of the community appear to be in favour of the school being built now and the courts ruling says it is legal I think some decency and dignity is needed to accept that. We don't always get what we want and that's not a great feeling I acceot but that's life!

Im not out to be intolerent to anyone i can assure you. Out of interest who have I disturbed on the PFANS side of the debate?

[Chas]

Out of interest who have I disturbed on the PFANS side of the debate?

Not me...

[seashell]

not me either.
I'm not aware of you being intolerant either.

[Bob Jefferson]

To save everyone the trouble of responding individually, can we just take it as read that mcdryburn hasn't disturbed anyone on the pro-school side? Betty on the other hand, I find very disturbing. And, to be honest, I find quite a few PPAG supporters rather frightening, but maybe that's just me.

[Mark Cameron]

Ah....so is that another lie from the PPAG side then.

[Bob Jefferson]

I suppose so, but a fairly minor one compared with such whoppers as their claim to represent the 'significant majority'. Even Pinnochio would be blushing at that one.

[Mark Cameron]

Even Pinocchio would be blushing at that one.

- Wangi we really need a 'Like' button on the forums

[Betty Windsor]

Betty you seem to be missing (or ignoring) a key thing in that the court listened the arguements and have ruled on it. Why can't you just let it go. Sometimes in life things go against you - PPAG need to show some dignity and move on.

And maybe you need to start showing a bit of respect to other people with different opinions. What kind of example do you think you're showing your children? Do you really want them to get the message that you get what you want by making a lot of noise and ridiculing people who don't share your ideas/beliefs. Your intolerance is deeply disturbing to many people on both sides of this debate.

I totally respect people's rights to have different opinions Betty. We live in a democracy and have a legal system. When the majority of the community appear to be in favour of the school being built now and the courts ruling says it is legal I think some decency and dignity is needed to accept that. We don't always get what we want and that's not a great feeling I acceot but that's life!

Im not out to be intolerent to anyone i can assure you. Out of interest who have I disturbed on the PFANS side of the debate?

You are right McDryburn, you should not have been on the receiving end of that comment. You did not deserve it. I hope you accept my apology. The same cannot be said for some of the supporters of the school on the park who post on this forum.
As you say we live in a democracy and part of that means that we have a legal system which allows us to challenge rulings that we believe to be incorrect. I believe the rate for appeals being upheld is something like 23%
Would it not make more sense for everyone to get behind a solution that benefits everyone ie a rebuild on the existing site or buying a brown field site. Why is there so much resistance to this? Seanie himself has said that a rebuild on the existing site is possible. So why not? Is a few months in some portocabins not worth saving an entire community's only bit of open green space.
Is it really too much to ask for people to make some sacrifices?

[Bob Jefferson]

Back in the real world, we now need just 7 more signatures on our petition to reach the 1000 mark!

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/dea ... ppeal.html

[Chas]

Would it not make more sense for everyone to get behind a solution that benefits everyone ie a rebuild on the existing site or buying a brown field site. Why is there so much resistance to this? Seanie himself has said that a rebuild on the existing site is possible. So why not? Is a few months in some portocabins not worth saving an entire community's only bit of open green space. Is it really too much to ask for people to make some sacrifices?

Here we go round again... I'm getting bored. Can we play another game now?

[seashell]

So that would be odds of three to one against the appeal being successful, even if PPAG do manage to fund it, after they've paid the Council's expenses to date? Given their success rate so far, I wouldn't gamble on that.

As you know, the decision has been made and was made years ago. Why do you keep wanting to go back several years? that's not going to happen and is merely a smokescreen.

The park is the best place and there will still be plenty of recreational space. Like you say - some sacrifices have to be made, but you don't seem to consider that it is PPAG who should be making these, rather than the rest of the community.

[tufty]

B W wrote Do you not think that using children in this way is a bit low?

You are clearly entrenched and trying to have an intelligent conversation with you is pointless as you have shown yourself to have very narrow vision. The young people are the point here, and I can speak for them as I work with them. they don't just want a new school they deserve and need it.

I hope you continue to post as it only helps demonstrate the lack of depth to PPAG. The more you rain, the deeper the puddles to sink in.

[Betty Windsor]

Bob did you go through the correct procedures before organising your "mass demonstration"? Was permission sought? risk assessment done? Police informed of large crowd?
I hope so.

admin: replies to this point have been split to another thread.

I think using children as young as 4 was cynical. If you'd asked the wee souls how they'd feel if a big digger came along and tore up all the grass and cut down some of those nice trees, what kind of a reaction do you think you'd have got from them?

Marily McLaren's comments about PPAG losing their moral compass was beneath contempt, as were Maureen's attempts to curry favour with the St John's parents.
I didn't see any little blue jumpers at the demo and the parents from the other feeder schools including Brunstane were noticable by their absence.
Why do you think that is?

[seanie]

PPAG's appeal has no realistic prospect of success and they know it. It's just a cynical attempt to cause further delay and expense in the futile hope that that will somehow get the project cancelled. They simply don't have the slightest regard for the impact their actions will have, not just for Portobello High School pupils, but for children across the capital who will also suffer.

[wangi]

Reminder to sign the petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/dea ... ppeal.html

Currently 1000 signatures!

[Porty]

Reminder to sign the petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/dea ... ppeal.html

Currently 1000 signatures!

That is very impressive in such a short space of time. I see discussion over on the EN has gone a bit bizarre.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-eveni ... -1-2212452

[Porty]

Would it not make more sense for everyone to get behind a solution that benefits everyone ie a rebuild on the existing site or buying a brown field site. Why is there so much resistance to this? ?

The answers can be found by reading the site consultation report from back in 2006. There was quite a bit of resistance for a) buying a brown field site (there wasn't one big enough even if there had been desire ) and b) there was not a single shred of democratic support for a rebuild on site- a fact- Councillors voted unanimously for a school on the park. Democracy spoke loud and firmly. It is you and few others who either can't take it in or refuse to accept it. The rest of us don't have a comprehension problem we embrace the democracy we all ought to live by.

[Angry Mum]

If I see one more comment that claims that the other schools were not represented last Friday!! Betty W - I don't know who you are, but I don't appreciate your comments.
We were there, from Parsons Green, St Johns, Duddingston, and Brunstane, and probably Royal High too although I didn't speak to anyone from that school. This was a demonstration organised at the last minute, and the turn out was wonderful. Our children came willingly, and we didn't stoop low in bringing them.
And the idea that 1400 children could be housed in "a few 'portacabins" while the school was built on the same site is ridiculous. They'd be bussed out to schools all over the city, at a huge cost and a massive disruption to Portobello kids and those in the other schools.
Please post sensible and truthful comments, and don't represent those of us who don't want you to!!

[seashell]

If I see one more comment that claims that the other schools were not represented last Friday!! Betty W - I don't know who you are, but I don't appreciate your comments.
We were there, from Parsons Green, St Johns, Duddingston, and Brunstane, and probably Royal High too although I didn't speak to anyone from that school. This was a demonstration organised at the last minute, and the turn out was wonderful. Our children came willingly, and we didn't stoop low in bringing them.
And the idea that 1400 children could be housed in "a few 'portacabins" while the school was built on the same site is ridiculous. They'd be bussed out to schools all over the city, at a huge cost and a massive disruption to Portobello kids and those in the other schools.
Please post sensible and truthful comments, and don't represent those of us who don't want you to!!

[Mark Cameron]

Apology accepted betty.

So 1000 signatures on that petition and I see on thevTalk Porty Facebook poll about whether PPAG should be allowed to have their appeal there are around 4 in favour of the appeal and More than 10 times in favour of it being dropped.

Seems to me no matter how the question is consulted on (ie online, face to face) the overwhelming majority always come out backing the current plans. Betty W don't you think that's the point you and PPAG should be taking on board and going with the will of the community you live in?

[Betty Windsor]

Apology accepted betty.

So 1000 signatures on that petition and I see on thevTalk Porty Facebook poll about whether PPAG should be allowed to have their appeal there are around 4 in favour of the appeal and More than 10 times in favour of it being dropped.

Seems to me no matter how the question is consulted on (ie online, face to face) the overwhelming majority always come out backing the current plans. Betty W don't you think that's the point you and PPAG should be taking on board and going with the will of the community you live in?

Thanks Mcdryburn.

Re other comments -If my experience backed that up I would indeed be urging the PPAG to give up but my experience is very different from yours and the parents of Towerbank. I believe Porty when he says that most people accept that the school is going on the park. That is not the same as saying that people agree with the council's decision to appropriate the park or that they are happy with it.

[Angry Mum]

I think most of us would accept that if there had been a suitable plot of land, we would rather the council had used it. After all, who in their right mind would want to go through this riotous process? But the truth is, there wasn't any where else, except a badly sloping, hardly used park in an area that is inundated with other, far more appealing, and far more utilised, outdoor spaces.
If I thought the council was going to build houses on the golf course, I would join in the fight to stop this. But to stop a sensitively designed school, nestled into the natural slope, offering the very latest indoor facilities, plus a community pool, community playing fields, and a golf course behind it, as opposed to a high rise, dangerous, falling apart building which somehow still manages to deliver a wonderful education to our children, but at a cost to both them and the local authority's funds.
Why would I argue this one?

[Bob Jefferson]

Precisely Angry Mum. Portobello Park was the only real option and just about everyone can see that. The Council has no intention of putting housing on the Golf Course and its Common Good status makes it virtually impossible anyway. But let's just imagine that the new Council decided that this was a good idea. Would anyone support that? No, of course not.

I know that, you know that but you're wasting your breath trying to convince Betty. You might as well talk to the cat.

[Mark Cameron]

Re other comments -If my experience backed that up I would indeed be urging the PPAG to give up but my experience is very different from yours and the parents of Towerbank. I believe Porty when he says that most people accept that the school is going on the park. That is not the same as saying that people agree with the council's decision to appropriate the park or that they are happy with it.

So are you saying you believe the majority of the community want the school to be further delayed. What are you basing that on?

[Epykat]

Precisely Angry Mum. Portobello Park was the only real option and just about everyone can see that. The Council has no intention of putting housing on the Golf Course and its Common Good status makes it virtually impossible anyway. But let's just imagine that the new Council decided that this was a good idea. Would anyone support that? No, of course not.

I know that, you know that but you're wasting your breath trying to convince Betty. You might as well talk to the cat.

You know Bob, that could have been a good, rational, mature post in reply to a good, rational, mature post but you had to spoil it by getting a dig in at the end.

[Bob Jefferson]

It was funny when Basil Fawlty said it.

[Bob Jefferson]

No, in fact it was Rowan Atkinson.

[Epykat]

You're neither.......

[Betty Windsor]

Re other comments -If my experience backed that up I would indeed be urging the PPAG to give up but my experience is very different from yours and the parents of Towerbank. I believe Porty when he says that most people accept that the school is going on the park. That is not the same as saying that people agree with the council's decision to appropriate the park or that they are happy with it.

So are you saying you believe the majority of the community want the school to be further delayed. What are you basing that on?

All I'm saying is that in my experience the opinion outside of the parent population is that they would rather keep the park and have the school built somewhere else.

[seanie]

Save Porty Park's finally got round to a savage Stalinist purging of their Facebook site, leaving only one simple fool who's confused about the ratio of supporting/objecting comments to the planning application.

[seashell]

Never mind - it was great going over there and reading just what the significant majority felt about PPAG's delaying actions. And funnily enough, they weren't exactly positive, despite what Betty claims. Seems like most people do want a school there, which was why they then deleted all the comments. Wait a minute, what was that Betty was saying about a democracy earlier on? Maybe she needs to go explain that concept to Save Porty Park.

[Makaveli]

It really does go to show and prove what a sneaky campaign PPAG are having. They will not let the other side of the argument be heard on their FB page. Anything they don't like is removed.

Says alot about them as people to me.

[seanie]

I have a screen shot.

[Lashylass]

Oh my word! Why am I not surprised?

[Makaveli]

I would expect you are not surprised as they have previous for it!!!