New Portobello High School - PPAG Judicial Review

[Epykat]

NEW SCHOOL
I have kept you up-to-date with developments as regards the new school planned for
Portobello High School. At present petitioners have appealed against Lady Dorian’s
judgement as released in April 2012. We await, with tested patience, the ruling of the
appeal heard by the panel of judges.

Tested patience indeed.

It's a virtue you know.

[gillian dunn]

Interesting comments Epykat, very interesting

[Puerto bella]

The Porty Pool info boards in the cafe must have been done by the same company - spelling/ grammar mistakes a-gogo

[regent]

No offence intended scoop!
Sincerely
April

[seanie]

The planning portal's got an updated ground floor plan for the school. The previous one was very difficult to read.

[seanie]

On the Save Porty Park Facebook site Kirstyn Logan says;

Can I also ask, there are posters everywhere stating that the school will only take up 3% of the green land in portobello- where the heck are they getting these figures from cause there is no way that these figures are accurate?? does anyone know where they have pulled these figures from cause I would be really interested to know. Thanks in advance.

The poster itself illustrates how the figure is calculated. If you look at the Portobello High School catchment there are around 74 Ha of significant greenspace. The footprint of the building and surrounding landscaping, plus the car park is 2.5 Ha, just over 3% of that. The all-weather pitches take up an additional 1.4 Ha but they've not been included as they're to be publicly accessible.

[seanie]

On the Save Porty Park Facebook site Kirstyn Logan says;

Possibly because PFANS seem to have misrepresented many facts such as the statement that there is nowhere other than the park that the school can be built or that it is porty green keepers who are holding up the build or that there are only a very small minority of people who are opposed to the build- none of those statements are true and yet I seem to be hearing them time and time again!

PFANS have not argued that the chosen site is the only possible site for the school to be built on, only that it is the best of extremely limited options.

As to holding up the build, if PPAG hadn't launched a legal action then work would've started on site last November, and if they hadn't lodged an appeal having failed on that legal challenge, then work would've started last May. The legal actions that PPAG have chosen to take, have delayed the opening of a new school by at least a year.

As to the balance of opinion it's not easy to come to a definitive conclusion. The largest indication of opinion would be the planning application itself, where 299 people lodged objections and 381 commented in favour of the new school. However, given that the catchment area of PGS covers a population in excess of 20,000, the most likely conclusion is that those firmly in favour, and those firmly against the proposals, both constitute a minority. But given that a petition calling on PPAG to drop their appeal gathered over 2000 signatures in less than a month, my guess would be that the minority against the school is somewhat smaller than the minority in favour.

[wangi]

On the Save Porty Park Facebook site Kirstyn Logan says;

Can I also ask, there are posters everywhere stating that the school will only take up 3% of the green land in portobello- where the heck are they getting these figures from cause there is no way that these figures are accurate?? does anyone know where they have pulled these figures from cause I would be really interested to know. Thanks in advance.

The poster itself illustrates how the figure is calculated. If you look at the Portobello High School catchment there are around 74 Ha of significant greenspace. The footprint of the building and surrounding landscaping, plus the car park is 2.5 Ha, just over 3% of that. The all-weather pitches take up an additional 1.4 Ha but they've not been included as they're to be publicly accessible.

And I even provided more info than that:
http://forum.talkporty.org/viewtopic.php?p=92518#p92518

Save Porty Park are rehashing the 25% of Portobello's parkland claim again on their Facebook page.

Let me share my working. The boundary in question is naturally the catchment of Portobello High School - not whatever arbitrary line PPAG choose to draw around Portobello (their listed parks do not even coincide with the Portobello Community Council boundary). So, here it is:


(click for PDF version)

In addition to the reasoning above it is inconsistent of PPAG to argue so passionately for Portobello Golf Course; and then simply dismiss it as inaccessible open space not worthy of consideration at a later date.

L/

And if anyone want the posters too...

And here are copies of the build our school now posters. Click on them for higher res versions - print your own.



PDF of the first 5; PDF of the 6th.

And the flyers, click for PDF:



L/

[seanie]

On the Save Porty Park Facebook site Gillian Dunn says;

The reason for the small % is that PFANs have included every green space in the school catchment area and not just Portobello. As many people don't even know where the park is this claim makes some people think the school is going on a very small space, which of course it isn't. It's all part of their campaign to misinform.

No, not every green space, just the public parks, pitches and Common Good land. If all green space was included the % would be much smaller. The poster clearly indicates what spaces are considered, so it's at least open and up front about the calculation in marked contrast to PPAG's repeated claims.

And if many people don't even know where the park is, that surely must be a reflection on how little used it is by the community?

[Epykat]

And if many people don't even know where the park is, that surely must be a reflection on how little used it is by the community?

You getting bored Sean? Raking up things because nobody's within firing distance and answering yourself.......

The 'Park' thing has been discussed before but in case you missed it........to longstanding locals the space is the 'golfie' not 'Portobello Park'. There was no 'Portobello Park' until the Council decided to start calling it 'Portobello Park'. Hence the reason that some people might not be quite sure about where the 'Park' is since they've probably called it the 'golfie' for as long as they can remember.

[rmolehusband]

The 'Park' thing has been discussed before but in case you missed it........to longstanding locals the space is the 'golfie' not 'Portobello Park'.

And we all know that it's only the opinion of 'longstanding locals' that matter in our community, eh? Give it a rest with the xenophobia, will you?

There was no 'Portobello Park' until the Council decided to start calling it 'Portobello Park'.

Portobello Park was the name of a farm in that area prior to 1800. The and was referred to as Portobello Park when the council bought it in 1890-ish. Lots of places have colloquial or local names, but that doesn't mean the original or official name is any less valid.

Hence the reason that some people might not be quite sure about where the 'Park' is since they've probably called it the 'golfie' for as long as they can remember.

If this had been an issue, a simple bit of publicity from PPAG would have solved any possible confusion and brought a whole new wave of supported on side, not to mention supporting their lie that the golf course would be built on too. Wonder why they didn't do it? This was pointed out to you before, the last time you tried to push your desperate conspiracy theory that the cooncil renamed the park so as the longstanding locals wouldn't realise where the school was being built.

[Makaveli]

Why do you keep on bringing up this 'longstanding locals' all the time Epykat? Each time I see you write it down it makes me think that you only think that longstanding locals are allowed to have a say. There are probably more folk living in Portobello now who were not born and breed there than were, so I think you need to give it a rest with the 'longstanding locals' comments - and to be honest if folk are that uninterested in what is going on in their local community that when announcements of where new projects are to be built are ignored by them cause they don't recognise the name of the place then they really probably don't care unless it is on their own doorstep!!!

As I have pointed out to you before there is a sign on the railings at the front of Portobello Park saying 'Portobello Park' - if anyone actually used Portobello Park they would have seen said sign.

[Makaveli]

You beat me to it rmolehusband

[Franck]

The 'Park' thing has been discussed before but in case you missed it........to longstanding locals the space is the 'golfie' not 'Portobello Park'.

I'm a long-standing resident, pretty much my entire life.I've always called it the golfie too, but equally, I know it's called Portobello Park.Is there long-standing residents that hear about the golfie and Portobello Park and don't know they are one in the same?And if so, where do they think this mythical Portobello Park is?

[gillian]

What does it matter what longstanding locals call it? Thing is they don't use it.

[seanie]

You getting bored Sean? Raking up things because nobody's within firing distance and answering yourself.......

Just responding to what Gillian Dunn posted yesterday. Obviously it would've been preferable to do it directly, but since I've been banned from the Save Porty Park 'community' Facebook site, alongside scores of other people I couldn't.

Maybe you could have a word with them about tolerating dissenting views?

[Epykat]

Maybe you could have a word with them about tolerating dissenting views?

I would but I hardly know them!

[Epykat]

The 'Park' thing has been discussed before but in case you missed it........to longstanding locals the space is the 'golfie' not 'Portobello Park'.

And we all know that it's only the opinion of 'longstanding locals' that matter in our community, eh? Give it a rest with the xenophobia, will you?

I'd be interested in your pathway of thought that got from me stating a fact that some people have lived here longer than others to me becoming xenophobic?

I would like to apologise for the fact that some people in Portobello were born and brought up here if it upsets you so much - but I won't.

[rmolehusband]

I'd be interested in your pathway of thought that got from me stating a fact that some people have lived here longer than others to me becoming xenophobic?

That's not what you said at all, and although your phrase 'longstanding locals' of course implies that some people have lived here longer than others, it is so obvious as to not need stating.

You chose the words, you must have had a reason. Why not just 'some locals' or even 'people'? You wouldn't necessarily need to have lived in the area for very long to know the park as the golfie and, conversely, it is clear that many people who have lived in the area for a long time don't call it the golfie so 'longstanding' is misleading and redundant.

In my view your reason is an standard rhetorical trick - your post claims unanimity amongst 'longstanding locals', it therefore suggests 'longstanding locals' have a view different from everyone else, i.e. incomers, it attempts to create the impression of two camps and, most importantly, it suggests that the 'longstanding locals' camp right and the incomers are wrong. That's xenophobia.

Anyway, I apologise, I was wrong to suggest you are in any way xenophobic. Now that little smoke screen is out of the way are you able to defend any of the nonsense you wrote that the name of the park used has any impact whatsoever on the fairness or outcome of the planning process? Thought not.

[Porty]

The 'Park' thing has been discussed before but in case you missed it........to longstanding locals the space is the 'golfie' not 'Portobello Park'. .

Portobello Park Action Group.

[Epykat]

Really, I'm flattered that you think I put so much thought into that post. I suppose it all depends on your perception of 'longstanding'. It doesn't attempt to create the impression of anything other than what it says. Some people have lived here for a long time, some people haven't. From the sounds of it it's you who is under the impression that there are two camps. I really don't give a toss where people come from or how long they've lived here, but I do have a problem with people who rubbish what other people say or do just because it doesn't fit in with their opinions. Is there a word for that?


Edited to fix typo

[seanie]

I do have a problem with people who rubbish what other people say or do just because it doesn't fit in with their opinions. Is there a word for that?

Where is this rubbishing of what other people say just because it's a different opinion?

[Porty]

The rubbishing must only be visible to some longstanding locals. I've moved out the locale so I can't see it either Sean.

[Scoop]

Well, there's a first. Barred from ANPHSITP! (did anyone else notice what that is an anagram of?) Who would believe it? Oh, wait a minute..........

http://www.facebook.com/new.phs.park?sk=info

...and

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?s ... 4872912822

Now, call me suspicious, and an old cynic too. And lots of other things besides. But don't call me a hypocrite.


(Pishpant, in case you were stumped)

[Epykat]

Can't be true surely? Two people barred......sorry, I mean deleted by mistake.....

[Scoop]

I do have a problem with people who rubbish what other people say or do just because it doesn't fit in with their opinions. Is there a word for that?

Where is this rubbishing of what other people say just because it's a different opinion?

Seanie, how about you and me going into business. "Porty Investigations - No job too small. No case too tricky." This would be an easy first case for us. I can hear it now - "It's him m'lud. He took all our posts. He's a law unto himself." Job's a good'un. 50/50 split?

[seanie]

Where is this rubbishing of what other people say just because it's a different opinion?

[Scoop]

Where is this rubbishing of what other people say just because it's a different opinion?

It's kind of been deleted. I know, I couldn't believe it either. Best laugh I've had in ages.

[seanie]

The rubbishing of other people's opinions has been deleted?

[Scoop]

I posted my opinion on ANPHSITP, I don't think I rubbished anyone's opinions, but they were different opinions to those held by the administrator, who deleted my posts, and barred me.

[seanie]

Seems unlikely it was as simple as that. What exactly did you say?

[Scoop]

Someone posted something along the lines of"the council has followed due process" to which I said "due process, Aye, there's the rub. This council wouldn't know due process if they found it in their soup" That was a general swipe at the council, not at the poster
"

[Scoop]

That same poster jumped to the conclusion, wrongly, that I was on the side of PPAG. Which I am not. nor am I on the side of those who want a school in the park. The same poster made a comment about how she couldbn't understand "how people like Vicki and Gillian" can turn a blind eye to the awful time that those who want a school on the park have gone through.

[Scoop]

To which I replied that since the poster didn't know me, she had made a wrong assumption about where I stood in all of this. so I told her where I stood. I told her that I didn't give a toss about the where the school was built, when it was built, who it was to be built by, if it was built.

[seanie]

Don't see what any of this has to do with rubbishing other people's opinions.