Good letter in the EN today:
Where to now for diverted drivers?
A SIGN at the Milton Road roundabout warns of major roadworks at the King's Road junction and implores drivers to seek an alternative route.
Given the ongoing roadworks at Fort Kinnaird, Sheriffhall and Milton Road, all presumably scheduled by qualified experts, could they perhaps advise which route drivers should now use?
Ian L M Walker, Abbey Toll Cottage, Haddington
Replacement of HLR / Seafield / Portobello Rd Roundabout
They only have the lights at Craigentinny Avenue sometimes though - just to keep everyone on their toes! Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it either ie they're not always on at rush hour. We can only assume they're put there on a whimSoupDragon wrote:Think the lights at Craigentinny Ave are to help the cars and buses that cant get through Wakefield Avenue.
admin: a number of posts from this thread have been split off to the Round and round the roundabout thread.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
This is going to be a categorical nightmare. The lights at Milton Road/ Duddingston Park South and Duddingston Park have proven that this system does not work. Previously (all times referred to at tea time rush hour), when the roundabout was in place, traffic at Duddingston Park went around 100m metres North towards Portobello. The queuing traffic on Milton Road went as far West as just short of Mountcastle Drive South and going East it was very short. The traffic on Duddingston Park South only went as far as around 50 metres South from the roundabout.
Since the inception of the traffic lights, queues on Duddingston Park South have more than tripled and can often be seen tailing back almost to the Jewel Miners Club. Traffic on Milton Road has also had a similar effect. There is also the stupid encounter that you have later on at night when you are left waiting at a junction when there is an empty junction to cross. I believed that the queue would disappear after the roadworks had finished. This is not the case, and I can't see any other experiences with the Sir Harry Lauder Road roundabout.
Roundabouts work. I noticed a letter to the Evening News recently that stated that the lights a Hermiston Gate had been out of order for an hour and a half and that the traffic was freely flowing and there were no accidents.
Since the inception of the traffic lights, queues on Duddingston Park South have more than tripled and can often be seen tailing back almost to the Jewel Miners Club. Traffic on Milton Road has also had a similar effect. There is also the stupid encounter that you have later on at night when you are left waiting at a junction when there is an empty junction to cross. I believed that the queue would disappear after the roadworks had finished. This is not the case, and I can't see any other experiences with the Sir Harry Lauder Road roundabout.
Roundabouts work. I noticed a letter to the Evening News recently that stated that the lights a Hermiston Gate had been out of order for an hour and a half and that the traffic was freely flowing and there were no accidents.
I agree with you Eck. Since the lights were put at the Asda junction it's a nightmare getting out of Asda. Before the lights it was only on the odd occasion that you had to queue to get out of the Asda junction, now it's every single time. The night time thing really gets up my nose too. You sit there in the middle of the night waiting on stupid lights to change and there's not another soul on the road 
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
It's ridiculous, there was no need for a roundabout to be uprooted and replaced with traffic lights. Putting aside the issue that they have made the flow of traffic worse, look at the issue of the amount of energy that is used to complete this work and also to maintain it. You have to take into consideration all the petrol costs for the the vehicles and the generators to keep the machinery working. Then, after the work is complete you have to keep the traffic lights working. This certainly wouldn't appear to be a 'green' choice for development and all the while petrol costs and gas/ maintenance bills increase, whilst people in rural East Lothian are being robbed of their steal and petrol which the rely on when living in such areas.
It would seem that the council are intent to restore us to a traditional way of Scottish life, even if that does mean pillaging the neighbours to get some wood for the fire. Someone should maybe point out to them that there will be no need for traffic lights in 10 years time or so as there will be so few people able to finance a car due to inflation and job losses.
It would seem that the council are intent to restore us to a traditional way of Scottish life, even if that does mean pillaging the neighbours to get some wood for the fire. Someone should maybe point out to them that there will be no need for traffic lights in 10 years time or so as there will be so few people able to finance a car due to inflation and job losses.
My understanding is that there have been a number of serious accidents, including fatalities, at the roundabout in the last few years. Whilst roundabouts "work" they generate more accidents than traffic light junctions. The accidents tend to be at low speed but even an accident at low speed can be serious, particularly for cyclists.
The work isn't expected to reduce or aggravate congestion. But it may save a few lives.
Annoying though it may be.
The work isn't expected to reduce or aggravate congestion. But it may save a few lives.
Annoying though it may be.
Why didn't they just clear the bushes (so people could see round the roundabout to see what wass coming) and put in part time traffic lights for busy times (leaving it as a normal roundabout outwith these times).
I can't see the intelligent traffic lights at a 5 road junction working particularly well unless they get better people to program them.
I can't see the intelligent traffic lights at a 5 road junction working particularly well unless they get better people to program them.
I had never heard of any fatalities at the roundabout. I know there were a couple of accidents, but that tended to be idiots who were going to fast when approaching the junction. These same people will still approach the traffic lights in the same manner.seanie wrote:My understanding is that there have been a number of serious accidents, including fatalities, at the roundabout in the last few years.
If there has been accidents there, then that's fair enough, but I don't think that there was a significant amount of accidents and that wasn't the reason that the Council gave for the implementation of the traffic lights. If there had been a safety risk and the Police had the figures to back it up then I would have thought that the Council would have used this.
Have a read of this thread Eck, Fatality at King's Road Roundabout.Eck wrote:I had never heard of any fatalities at the roundabout.seanie wrote:My understanding is that there have been a number of serious accidents, including fatalities, at the roundabout in the last few years.
I was at a Community Council meeting where council officials gave a briefing on the roundabout works and they explicitly said the main reason for the works was safety and the poor accident record of the roundabout.
On the subject of congestion they were less commital but basically said they didn't expect the changes to improve things for traffic in general, but that the prioritisation should help the buses.
On the subject of congestion they were less commital but basically said they didn't expect the changes to improve things for traffic in general, but that the prioritisation should help the buses.
Information on the works from the Council website.
King's Road Roundabout
King's Road Roundabout
From what was said at the CC meeting those accidents were just the ones serious enough to require police attendance.Why are we doing the works?
We're making this junction safer and easier to use, especially for pedestrians and cyclists. There have been 18 accidents at the King’s Road roundabout over the last five years, involving 20 casualties. Of these, four were cyclists, three were motorcyclists and two were pedestrians. There was one fatality involving a cyclist in 2003, and three serious injuries to cyclists or motorcyclists.
The new junction will:
• be safer, particularly for pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists
• improve bus times and reliability
I agree that the Asda roundabout is safer for pedestrians, no doubt about it, but King's Road had decent pedestrian crossings albeit they were a bit out of the way and you do have to be vigilant re cars not noticing the green man. However, I don't think that will change by changing to lights. Cyclists will hopefully benefit, I can see how they would prefer lights, but I would rather they had cut down the vegetation as Grunk said so that you can see right over the roundabout, and put in part time lights for rush hour. There will always be accidents when you mix pedestrians, bikes and motor vehicles but increasing congestion isn't going to improve matters.
That was a bit below the belt btw.seanie wrote:But it may save a few lives.
Annoying though it may be.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
So I left the house at 8.30 this morning, to see that the traffic had tailed back as far as Eastfield. So I went off to get the train (it was cancelled, I got very wet).
Anyhow, I noticed that in this tail back of traffic that buses were scattered amongst the cars and being held up as well. Now the new traffic lights are going to slow traffic (this has been admitted to) but there are going to be bus priority lanes. I was wondering what the point of a bus priority lane is if the buses are held in the traffic that is being held up because of the bus priority lane?
I've also noticed that Joppa Road/Portobello high street is quite wide, wouldn't it be a good idea, if thee was a bus lane on the approach to the junction? it's obviously not as important when traveling away from the junction as the buses wont be held up by the bus priority lanes after they've negotiated the junction.
Anyhow, I noticed that in this tail back of traffic that buses were scattered amongst the cars and being held up as well. Now the new traffic lights are going to slow traffic (this has been admitted to) but there are going to be bus priority lanes. I was wondering what the point of a bus priority lane is if the buses are held in the traffic that is being held up because of the bus priority lane?
I've also noticed that Joppa Road/Portobello high street is quite wide, wouldn't it be a good idea, if thee was a bus lane on the approach to the junction? it's obviously not as important when traveling away from the junction as the buses wont be held up by the bus priority lanes after they've negotiated the junction.
Just like Grunk I left the house at 8.30 this morning but with my waterproofs on to keep me nice and dry. I cycled across the High Street, avoiding all the cars going nowhere, and headed on down to the prom. I arrived at work in Dalmeny Steet at 8.50 feeling quite relaxed and glad that I don't rely on public transport or my own car to get me around the city. It's still raining as I write this but I know it will only take me 20 minutes to get home.
Prom cycling for all.
luckily he had a good book with him. It took him in all 2 hours to get to work. 
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portyallmydays
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Heard a rumour on Wednesday (from a local Posty!) that they are having problems with the drains at the "roundabout" site (something about getting them deep enough) and that there is talks about having to still have a roundabout there. (might explain the hill still in the middle even after resurfacing, or is this normal?) Anyone heard similar? Oh, and don't shoot the messenger! 
And what an absolute nightmare it is.Maureen Child wrote:More prosaic - but important: The traffic management at the Seafield Roundabout site will be altered early on Saturday morning (23rd August) to make the junction less dangerous and easier for pedestrians. The plan is to bring temporary traffic signals into operation. They will allow a couple of days in which the new layout can be checked and any improvements made before the weekday traffic starts to cross the site on Monday. The temporary traffic signals will cause some disruption and delays to traffic, especially in the first few days – and remember the schools are back so road traffic has increased by at least 15%. The new layout and signals will be monitored by staff from roads and transport design, traffic control and the principal contractor. Meetings have been held with the police and the bus companies to discuss the proposals. There has been some concern expressed about maintaining pedestrian crossing facilities within the site. The contractor has been made aware of this. Although signalled crossings cannot be provided within the traffic management layout, alternative routes across the site for pedestrians will be put in place. We’ll get further details of these measures when the traffic management is set up.
L/
Got the 21 this morning, what a nightmare stuck for ages outside quick fit and were going nowhere fast! Another joyful thing about living in Porty, the traffics a nightmare!wangi wrote:And what an absolute nightmare it is.Maureen Child wrote:More prosaic - but important: The traffic management at the Seafield Roundabout site will be altered early on Saturday morning (23rd August) to make the junction less dangerous and easier for pedestrians. The plan is to bring temporary traffic signals into operation. They will allow a couple of days in which the new layout can be checked and any improvements made before the weekday traffic starts to cross the site on Monday. The temporary traffic signals will cause some disruption and delays to traffic, especially in the first few days – and remember the schools are back so road traffic has increased by at least 15%. The new layout and signals will be monitored by staff from roads and transport design, traffic control and the principal contractor. Meetings have been held with the police and the bus companies to discuss the proposals. There has been some concern expressed about maintaining pedestrian crossing facilities within the site. The contractor has been made aware of this. Although signalled crossings cannot be provided within the traffic management layout, alternative routes across the site for pedestrians will be put in place. We’ll get further details of these measures when the traffic management is set up.
L/
The pedestrian access is non existent! I've walked most days from Moira Terrace to the High Street for the past 6 weeks and it's just got worse and worse. Now there are no provisions for pedestrians at all - it's a cross your fingers and run especially at the Seafield Road end because the cars come flying round the blind corner and it's only the goodwill of the drivers going towards the roundabout that gets you over the other side of the road.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
Old tunnel? What was the old tunnel for, railway tunnel was it?wangi wrote:You're not going to see it - bets.Epykat wrote:Still no pedestrian access.
What's been done the last three weeks - it's still like a mountain of tar in the middle of the old roundabout (did they discover the old tunnel under?) and the "practice lights" didn't last two days...
You're probably right - it doesn't seem to be a priority. There was an elderly woman with two small children trying to cross the other day - I couldn't look. I liked the "Pedestrians this way" sign the other day which was pointing to a bit of pavement that there was no access to.wangi wrote:You're not going to see it - bets....Epykat wrote:Still no pedestrian access.
Enough of your nonsense - get back to the Play Pen!
An interesting, if worrying read...
Maureen Child wrote:The roadworks at King’s Road Roundabout commenced on 16 June 2008. The contract period was 20 weeks, giving an expected date for completion of 2 November 2008. All five roads at the roundabout were to remain open throughout the roadworks.
The first phase of the roadworks was carried out with traffic passing through the site still operating under a roundabout system. This phase was completed in early August, approximately 4 weeks ahead of schedule.
After completion of this phase it was intended to introduce temporary traffic signal control at the site. This would have allowed areas of the existing circulatory carriageway of the roundabout to be closed off so that the new junction layout could be constructed in these areas. Over the next three weeks, three separate attempts were made to introduce the new traffic management layout needed to implement this next phase of construction. On each occasion, this had to be abandoned after a few hours due to serious safety concerns that arose.
The temporary traffic management system did not operate as we had anticipated and this resulted in lengthy delays and driver safety issues which were unacceptable.
In order to resolve the issues of carrying on the Contract in a safe manner whilst maintaining traffic flows through the junction we suspended the work in the centre of the junction and have given the process further consideration.
We have been investigating possible alternative traffic management options to allow the remainder of the junction to be constructed safely while also trying to minimise disruption. In the meantime, the Contractor has been has been carrying out work in other areas of the site to minimise the effects of the delay this has caused.
Having looked at various options and consulted with representatives of Services for Communities (Road Services), the Police and Lothian Buses, we have now identified what we feel is the best way to complete the roadworks.
This involves temporarily closing Portobello High Street to through traffic at the roundabout for the remainder of the roadworks. Access to and from King’s Road would continue to be available via Portobello High Street. This would allow the traffic management through the site to be reduced to effectively a T junction with Seafield Road East, Sir Harry Lauder Road and Portobello Road remaining open.
In addition, by temporarily prohibiting the right turn from Seafield Road East into Portobello Road, Seafield Road East and Sir Harry Lauder Road traffic can pass through the site at the same time, allowing the number of signals phases required to be reduced to two. The simplified traffic management through the site and the reduction in the number of signals phases from five to two should address the previous safety concerns and will result in a significant reduction in delays.
In order to accommodate access to and from Portobello High Street a temporary diversion route will be provided through Baileyfield Industrial Estate via Baileyfield Crescent, Fishwives Causeway at Sir Harry Lauder Road. Temporary parking restrictions will be implemented at critical points along this route to maintain traffic flows. This will also require certain enabling works to be carried out before it can be put into operation.
The existing traffic signals at the junction of Fishwives Causeway and Portobello High Street will be temporarily switched off and a mini roundabout arrangement will be put in place at this location while the diversion is operating.
A second traffic lane will be temporarily constructed over a short length of Baileyfield Crescent on the approach to its junction with Sir Harry Lauder Road to maximise traffic flows through the junction. The existing banned right turn out of Baileyfield Crescent onto Sir Harry Lauder Road will be temporarily suspended, although the banned right turn into the industrial estate will remain in force. A set of temporary traffic signals will be put in place at this junction to ensure that traffic using the diversion route can get out onto Sir Harry Lauder Road. These signals will be phased to operate in conjunction with the signals at the site to ensure that the area does not become gridlocked.
The existing Toucan crossing on Sir Harry Lauder Road at Fishwives Causeway will continue to operate but it will be necessary to temporarily remove the existing island and signals poles in the centre of the road to allow a second traffic lane to be provided on the approach to the roadworks. Additional traffic signals heads will be erected in the footways to reinforce the crossing to motorists and these will remain on completion of the roadworks when the central islands and signals poles are reinstated.
Various other measures to assist traffic flows will also be put in place, such as introducing yellow box junction markings on Seafield Road East at the entrance to Lothian Buses’ depot and at the junction of Sir Harry Lauder Road and Baileyfield Road.
These enabling works are likely to take several weeks to design and put in place and it is therefore currently expected that the closure of Portobello High Street will not be put in place until early-mid October. Various measures will be undertaken prior to this to notify local people and commuter traffic of the changes and I will contact you again to confirm the actual date of implementation when this is known.
It is currently expected that the roadworks will take approximately 6 weeks to complete following the implementation of the road closure. This gives an estimated completion date for the roadworks of mid-late November, approximately 3-4 weeks behind the original programme.
It's a pretty amazing situation - given the failure on three occasions to enable the temporary lights (I was stuck in one of those occasions) what assurances have been made regarding the ultimate successful use of the lights at this junction... Is there confidence it can be made to work? Should a fallback to a roundabout be seriously considered; or the closure of the top of Kings Rd to simplify the junction?Porty wrote:I hope it is all worth it.
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Pal of Porty
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It is only worth it if you are helped by the Councils aims for the new junction which were to:Porty wrote:..... I hope it is all worth it.
• be safer, particularly for pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists
• improve bus times and reliability
The Council have acknowledged that cars will take longer to pass this point once it is fully operational.
This is almost identical to the Milton Link project - it now great for me to go through on my bike but adds an extra 5 mins when I go through by car.
Justice delayed is justice denied.