suitable topics for forum

[administrator]

Surrealist and wangi have started an interesting debate on what constitutes suitable topics for this forum.

The 'Welcome' announcement states:

Welcome to the Portobello Online discussion forum. This is your space to discuss and debate any matter of interest with relevance to the Portobello area.

The discussion can be as serious or as trivial as you like. We only ask that you are respectful of other opinions and that you express yourself in a way that is not likely to offend others.

Most of the topics posted here meet the criteria. They concern local issues, local people, local events. Others, 'Big Brother' for example, have no direct relevance at all. So, should I risk upsetting people and delete these posts, or go with the flow and allow users to post what they like (without being offensive)?

I have tried to take a hands-off approach as much as possible. I take the view that it is a community forum and that means that the content is produced by the community (warts and all). I know that this approach puts some people off from participating, often because they feel the content is trivial or irrelevant. What they fail to realise is that they are just as capable as anyone else of providing the content and (in doing so) shaping the forum.

Carla's posts on Iraq hardly constitute a discussion but I'm sure they are of interest to some forum users. You know what you are going to get with Carla and the choice is yours to read or not.

I personally don't give a stuff about Big Brother, but if a few people get some fun out of discussing it for a while then why should I spoil their fun?

At the end of the day, we provide the facility but it's your forum. Rules are made reluctantly and, as you are all a generally well-mannered bunch, the moderator is generally out to lunch.

[Surrealist]

If I didn't perpetually have my tongue implanted firmly in my cheek, I'm not sure how much gravitas I'd give to a "debate" between two people who choose to call themselves "surrealist" and "wangi" !!!!

[Guest]

Carla's posts on Iraq hardly constitute a discussion but I'm sure they are of interest to some forum users. You know what you are going to get with Carla and the choice is yours to read or not.

I long since gave up on the Iraq thread (Sorry Carla) but I wouldn't for a minute object to it. The Big Brother thread I started to try to bring in a new theme... Perhaps there are some lurkers who might want to join in? I'm happy to see it wither and die if no-one else joins the chat, but to suggest that it - or other non-local threads - might not be allowed would make Portyweb insular and unwelcoming, I fear.

What people like Surrealist and I (and you Bob!) do is launch topics that anyone can join in with... Portyweb still has too few contributors, and the wider the breadth of topics, the more people, I hope, will join in.

[wangi]

not sure how much gravitas I'd give to a "debate" between two people who choose to call themselves "surrealist" and "wangi" !!!!

Aye! I've nothing against "wide ranging" topics for discussion - but that's a different thing to posting of political propaganda and news releases verbatim...

[Surrealist]

v. nice avatar, wangi

[Cynthia]

Surrealist said most of what I would have said to Wangi under the Iraq thread. 581 people have looked at that thread to date. Even if some of those were bored after their one view, that still is an awful lot of views - perhaps by a smallish group of 15-20 people., or maybe different people, who knows.
I would be against taking politics, including international politics, off the forum, not just because I post these - anyone can disagree with any of the postings I put which are from a very wide range of groups, not all left wing necessarily...see Our World Our Say, and Gush Shalom. You can't take politics out of life - I would argue there's something political in its broadest sense to say about a lot of things, although some things like the Baptist Church clock I might struggle with a bit!

I also think it draws in people who are interested in politics - just like a music thread or the Big Brother thread might draw in others.

If you don't like a thread don't look at it - but I find it hard to believe that people in Portobello don't sympathise with people in Iraq, under occupation and in a perpetual state of war, in Afghanistan which is in chaos and war still, or people in Palestine, having their houses demolished. If Portobello, or Edinburgh, was going through this - wouldn't we want the communities of the world, small or large to be watching, and trying to help if only by writing and emailing our politicians??

Millions have marched against the war on Iraq - I know these included many of us from Portobello.

Peace and war are Portobello issues as much as anyone else's in the world. Remember that quote which I only half remember - which contained something like - first they came for the Jews, and I wasn't a Jew, so I said nothing, Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did nothing because I wasn't a Trade Unionist, then they came for me and there was no one left to defend me.....apologies I haven't got the full quote which is very powerful perhaps someone else can find it and put it on for me. Carla

[Guest]

There are various published versions of this poem, which has been widely corrupted to suit the agenda at hand. In many American Holocaust museums the reference to communists is often dropped, for example, while in other versions there are references to homosexuals etc. The actual wording is thought to be the following:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.

The poem is commonly attributed to Pastor Martin Niemoller, a German U boat captain imprisoned in Dachau for his anti-Nazi views, though there is much debate about this. For those interested the matter is discussed in some depth at:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache: ... s%22&hl=en

[Guest]

Well argued Carla.

Even though I don't read the Iraq thread, I notice it bubbling up to the top of the page, it makes me aware that people are discussing the issues. For someone like me, who doesn't normally follow the news very closely) this is a positive outcome.

[Cynthia]

thanks to Bob for finding the poem by (I thought) Pastor Niemoller, although when time I will check the weblink Bob has posted.
Thanks also to Alex for his friendly tolerant approach. Not everyone is interested in every thread - it would be impossible to watch every piece of information posted on this Forum. I believe the value of this Forum is its' diversity of views and topics.
It would also be a pretty difficult job for the Administrator to decide what is local or not (as Surrealist said in the Peace/Iraq thread, are the appalling events of 9/11, and the wars which we were all, including Porty people, taken into after this, not to be discussed because not strictly applying only to Portobello?). I wouldn't like to be the one to decide what is 'political' or not either - on that basis the Campaign Against The Superstore, which is the most popular thread, could be argued as political, as could the campaign against the smell from Seafield. etc. etc. Although very much about local issues, they involve political concerns e.g. semi-privatisation of water supplies and treatment, the laws governing planning and how skewed they are to the developers and against communities - see Flats in Bath Street thread for an example of this. Life is political - although I know that the news we read can be so distressing it is natural to want to turn away from it - but that's when even more terrible things can happen - when the world has turned its back or eyes away from something. I believe we have some power to sway our politicians by representing our views to them - they do have to rely on us, albeit not very often, to get elected. So they do have to listen especially if enough people act on the same issue.

Let's have a bit of tolerance - and by the way (in answer to Wangi) I am not posting things on the Peace thread to bring it up the board - if no one was watching it, it would be a waste of my time to post anything on it. I am pleased that at least some people have joined in the thread - you don't have to be politically active to have a view - and many people in Porty have in the past as well as now been very actively campaigning for peace and against wars in many parts of the world. For instance, did you know of (or were you a member of) PANG? Portobello Anti Nuclear Group I believe? There are also many peace orientated groups e.g. Amnesty International, which have meetings and activities in East Edinburgh including Portobello. Why not tell us some of your news, and views?
Carla

[Epykat]

You're right Carla - not everybody is interested in every thread and that's what makes the board interesting! A lot of the time I come onto this board for a bit of light relief - to read a lot of inane twaddle about Big Brother, or have a wee disagreement about most things with Surrealist This is what makes this board for me and I don't see why anything which isn't grossly offensive should be banned (then again, what's grossly offensive to one person might be grossly funny to another )

[wangi]

Well argued Carla.

Even though I don't read the Iraq thread, I notice it bubbling up to the top of the page, it makes me aware that people are discussing the issues. For someone like me, who doesn't normally follow the news very closely) this is a positive outcome.

Eh? Go on - have a look that the topic in question. Out of the 5 pages pages 2, 3 and 4 are purely Carla posting forwarded info. There is no discussion taking place! It's bubbling to the top simply due to new info being added...

[wangi]

v. nice avatar, wangi

Cheers, got a fair few other ones of Protobello beach at sunset... Need to get that online at some point!

[Guest]

We would be happy to showcase your photos in our Galleries section if you like. Just email them to me. That goes for anyone else who is handy with a camera and has photos of Porty they would like to share.

[bellybabe]

I just read and replied to the thread about Big Brother before I got to this one ... I can't say I've ever been upset/bothered/irritated by any of the threads on here, although once or twice i've been a little unsettled by the very occasional personal insults that have appeared from time to time. I don't reply to that thread of Carla's but i do read it every now and again, and am quite happy to be kept up to date, just as i am about traffic calming, the superstore, which fast food outlets to use and what our pets look like.
I think Bob's approach on this is the right one - at least we are talking to each other, even if we're talking about things some people see as irrelevant.
And it's always worth checking in to see who surrealist is scrapping with now LOL!

[Cynthia]

Wangi said:

Eh? Go on - have a look that the topic in question. Out of the 5 pages pages 2, 3 and 4 are purely Carla posting forwarded info. There is no discussion taking place! It's bubbling to the top simply due to new info being added...

Thanks to Bellybabe for her interest and tolerant attitude to the Peace and War in Iraq thread and any other threads which she, or others, might not feel they want to post on or even to read but don't object to....First my postings are being criticised for being not local to Portobello, and then also too much about politics, now its because they are largely from newsletters. They do also contain, but Wangi didn't add this, details of meetings in Edinburgh, Glasgow and, dare I say it, Portobello - see East Edinburgh Stop the War Coalition. There are plans for another Peace event in Porty Town Hall later in the summer.......watch that thread.


What is wrong with passing on information, particularly from Groups such as Gush Shalom, as well as the other peace groups, who have difficulty getting publicity in the mainstream press - to people in Portobello? We do share a planet with people in the rest of Scotland, UK, Europe, Palestine, Iraq etc. I repeat, 580 odd (or probably more now) people have looked at this thread. Wangi him or herself is also watching it - in quite a lot of detail it would seem. I just wonder if it is not the lack of Portobello centred ness or the fact that the subject is political or that quite a lot is about information and meetings that Wangi is objecting to but the political message that Wangi doesn't like?.....if it is, come out and say so, and lets have a discussion about the politics in the postings, rather than the side issues of whether or not they are 'appropriate' topics....

Maybe I am wrong, and I am sorry if I am, but it sounds like you don't like the political message in these postings - and that is a political statement in itself (supporting the status quo) -
Carla

[wangi]

How about his - I'll post results and analysis (from another source) of all the forthcoming Football games to this forum. To keep the local angle I'll mention a few local pubs that'll have the TV on showing the games. I bet that'd go down a treat! Naturally there are more appropriate forums for such postings, as with yours...

Would it not be better to post this info as a brief summary and a link to the full details?

Yeah, I guess I do find your political "message" a touch objectionable (especially Israel=bad, Palestine=good) but that was never the reason behind my original "one line wonder". And I don't fancy discussing it either - to be honest I'm like 90% of the rest of the population and find politics a real dozefest and I am realistic enough to realise that there will always be turmoil and unpleasantness in the world!

And I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the view count - look at the view count for this thread - it's fairly high too...

[Surrealist]

Us "politicos" are also realistic enough to realise it's a bad world too, wangi. Your initial premise is incorrect if your criticism of us is simply that it's not worth trying to change things, even if our individual efforts seem piecemeal and futile.

Of course there will always be turmoil and unpleasantness - and even if by some bizarre stroke of luck it ended in one place, it would continue in another - and even if it ended now it would still be too late for those who have suffered and died in the past - and even if we all walked off into the sunset now it might be the case that worse horror will occur in 200 years time.

The point of the activists is that they already understand this but struggle anyway - and don't give up hope even in times of defeat. Without such brave souls - whether they became "famous" or not, whether we have heard of them or not (I'm sure that for every Anne Frank and Martin Luther King there are countless others who died unknown) the point, for me at least, is hope.

I respect your opinions, even if I disagree with them. I respect that you don't want to discuss them even though you have ventured to state them. That's fine. But whilst opinions sway back and forth and change over time, the perception of injustice and the desire to change it are admirable traits - not naivety.

[Skeely]

How about his - I'll post results and analysis (from another source) of all the forthcoming Football games to this forum. To keep the local angle I'll mention a few local pubs that'll have the TV on showing the games.

Just label the thread "football", and I'll know not to read it.

[wangi]

the perception of injustice and the desire to change it are admirable traits - not naivety.

Sorry if that came across as a personal dig - wasn't intended that way.

L.

[wangi]

Just label the thread "football", and I'll know not to read it.

Or be underhand and name it soccer!

[Cynthia]

wangi wrote :

How about his - I'll post results and analysis (from another source) of all the forthcoming Football games to this forum. To keep the local angle I'll mention a few local pubs that'll have the TV on showing the games.

I have no objection to this - post away!

and:

And I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the view count - look at the view count for this thread - it's fairly high too...

I am not sure what a high viewcount means but surely it means the thread is something of interest to either a number of regular return viewers or a high number of one off viewers...this thread is actually about something very important - censorship or not - and I am not talking about censorship of personal attacks, which I agree with, but censorship of ideas, where they come from and how they are presented - that I disagree with. If anyone finds any thread boring then they don't have to look at it....

and:

Yeah, I guess I do find your political "message" a touch objectionable (especially Israel=bad, Palestine=good) but that was never the reason behind my original "one line wonder". And I don't fancy discussing it either - to be honest I'm like 90% of the rest of the population and find politics a real dozefest and I am realistic enough to realise that there will always be turmoil and unpleasantness in the world!

thanks for being honest - although case is closed if you don't want to discuss these political views - either those you put forward as mine or your own - happy to debate further if you want to though - suggest on the Peace and War in Iraq thread - just as you can debate football on the football thread which Surrealist I think has started.....
Carla

[Surrealist]

I don't fancy discussing football either - to be honest I'm like 90% of the rest of the population and find football a real dozefest and I am realistic enough to realise that there will always be football fans in the world!

[wangi]

I don't fancy discussing football either - to be honest I'm like 90% of the rest of the population and find football a real dozefest and I am realistic enough to realise that there will always be football fans in the world!

Must be a Hibbie then!