I was sitting on the no.26 yesterday at the Portobello High Street-scape improvements traffic jam, and noticed in front of us 6 cars then 4 double deckers then 4 cars then 2 double deckers.
Does anyone have any statistics that would indicate how environmentally friendly a bus is compared with a car?
I know there are a multitude of factors (road maintenance, congestion, etc, etc), but in basic terms I would be interested to know how many people a double decker has to carry to make it more environmentally friendly than taking the car.
The majority of the buses that I could see (including the one I was on) had only a handful of people.
buses / cars
Re: buses / cars
well, I'll start the bidding........ how about one??ras wrote:I would be interested to know how many people a double decker has to carry to make it more environmentally friendly than taking the car.
yours
grumpy middleaged man (4 weeks off the fags)
Ah,ras wrote:so if everyone who currently takes the car is allocated their own bus the environment would be better off?
no-one really needs a doudle decker though to themselves so they could be scaled down - possibly car sized, even better for the environment?
but what if one can't drive for some reason??!!You had better ask Ali about that, he suggeted that one person in a bus is better than one in a car.
I am genuinely interested, as more I think there are too many buses serving too few people. Surely to be as environmentally friendly as possible (and help reduce congestion) the buses need to be full.
I am genuinely interested, as more I think there are too many buses serving too few people. Surely to be as environmentally friendly as possible (and help reduce congestion) the buses need to be full.
My point was that one car owner on the bus is one less car on the road and if there were less cars on the road then you wouldn't get buses bunched up behind a queue of cars ie they would be spread out at the timetabled intervals. You don't think that Lothian Buses send them out in 4's and 6's do you???ras wrote:You had better ask Ali about that, he suggeted that one person in a bus is better than one in a car.
I am genuinely interested, as more I think there are too many buses serving too few people. Surely to be as environmentally friendly as possible (and help reduce congestion) the buses need to be full.
Do you really think that is what I meant?? Can I suggest in the politest possible way (in the style of that great man MacIntyre of West Brighton Crescent) that you are being ridiculous.ras wrote:so if everyone who currently takes the car is allocated their own bus the environment would be better off?
t?
It's an interesting point you make ras.ras wrote:You had better ask Ali about that, he suggeted that one person in a bus is better than one in a car.
I am genuinely interested, as more I think there are too many buses serving too few people. Surely to be as environmentally friendly as possible (and help reduce congestion) the buses need to be full.
I think if you were starting from scratch and wanting to make lots of money - you wouldn't even put on a service from somewhere far away that not many people use - you'd put your money into buses taking people to their work in the Gyle or other busy routes like the 23 and the 26.
That's if you wanted to be a business. I think if what you wanted was to provide public transport for all - which would be a nicer thing to do but maybe not as profitable - then you would be obliged to be able to get somebody from A to B in the city.
Getting from A to B in the city might mean changing buses in the centre of town - so you can see how these routes have evolved - inner and couter circles and a lot of buses ending up in the centre of town.
Add other traffic to that, and you are bound to get times when there are lots of buses together.
For me, knowing that there is a decent system in place for all and not just a service on the busy routes that makes money is important - but then I am a bus user and not (for example) a driving instructor - who all had a great day on Tuesday with no buses on the road!!!
Incidentally - did you know that taxis carry as many people each year in Edinburgh as buses do?
Ali, I know exactly what you were suggesting and yes I was being rediculous, but...
in pollution terms is 6 people in a double decker better than 6 cars for example?
Dadaist, I wasn't aware of the taxi figure, but perhaps I should be more concerned about them that about buses. Although whilst sitting in traffic on portobello high street I didn't notice that many taxis.
in pollution terms is 6 people in a double decker better than 6 cars for example?
Dadaist, I wasn't aware of the taxi figure, but perhaps I should be more concerned about them that about buses. Although whilst sitting in traffic on portobello high street I didn't notice that many taxis.
I'd be really surprised if a bus wasn't much more polluting than a car - imagine the work the engine in a bus has to do when it's full - pulling that weight of people at that speed!ras wrote: Dadaist, I wasn't aware of the taxi figure, but perhaps I should be more concerned about them that about buses. Although whilst sitting in traffic on portobello high street I didn't notice that many taxis.
As far as I know, it's the same engine in a double decker bus as in your average tank!
My dad told me the taxi stat, ras, and he is a taxi driver. He didn't know it until he was at a big meeting of all the cabbies and the council - the council guy tried to tell them that taxis weren't public transport - and got put in his place by some people who knew their numbers - seanie style.
I know some great taxi stories.
Slightly off topic....ali wrote:My point was that one car owner on the bus is one less car on the road and if there were less cars on the road then you wouldn't get buses bunched up behind a queue of cars ie they would be spread out at the timetabled intervals. You don't think that Lothian Buses send them out in 4's and 6's do you???
A queue of moving cars has formed on a long straight road, the oncoming traffic is not too busy, which car would you say is responsible for the queue?
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Jackson Priest
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Why is the focus on the buses?
Why don't we get all those cars off the road and give the buses room to spread out at the 5 or 10 minute intervals which they set off at?
How many of those cars clogging up Porty High Street in the last week have a driver and no passenger??
I'll tell you - most of them!!!
Don't try and blame the buses for being inefficient and causing pollution. If half you lard -a*s*s got out of your cars and tried walking for just one or two of those so-called "essential" journeys every day then we wouldn't be facing environmental catastrophe and chaos in our cities.
You drivers know its true but you won't admit it and until you do, we ALL have to put up with the kind of cr*p we've seen in the last week in the High Street.
Rant over!!!
Why don't we get all those cars off the road and give the buses room to spread out at the 5 or 10 minute intervals which they set off at?
How many of those cars clogging up Porty High Street in the last week have a driver and no passenger??
I'll tell you - most of them!!!
Don't try and blame the buses for being inefficient and causing pollution. If half you lard -a*s*s got out of your cars and tried walking for just one or two of those so-called "essential" journeys every day then we wouldn't be facing environmental catastrophe and chaos in our cities.
You drivers know its true but you won't admit it and until you do, we ALL have to put up with the kind of cr*p we've seen in the last week in the High Street.
Rant over!!!
I hope you weren't referring to me as one of those lard a**es. I am one of the bus passengers and the reason I am focusing on buses is because I was sitting in a pretty empty bus behind a load of pretty empty buses.
There seems to have been a knee-jerk reaction to try to get people out of their cars by flooding the place with buses. This hasn't worked. People are not leaving their cars, so we still have too many cars and now we have -in my opinion - too many buses.
There seems to have been a knee-jerk reaction to try to get people out of their cars by flooding the place with buses. This hasn't worked. People are not leaving their cars, so we still have too many cars and now we have -in my opinion - too many buses.
Stick on a patch, Ali dear, and you'll feel better! 
The 'answer' is in part that as buses do get full up at the peak times we need big buses for then and it would prohibitively expensive (and probably impracticable) to have a fleet of different sized buses for different times of day! I believe that they make the new 26s into single deckers late at night by shutting the doors to the stairs. I quite like a lot of choice even on a single decker on a late bus so one can sit well away from dodgy drunks who are either aggressive or, worse, over friendly (while they think they are being charming!!).
The 'answer' is in part that as buses do get full up at the peak times we need big buses for then and it would prohibitively expensive (and probably impracticable) to have a fleet of different sized buses for different times of day! I believe that they make the new 26s into single deckers late at night by shutting the doors to the stairs. I quite like a lot of choice even on a single decker on a late bus so one can sit well away from dodgy drunks who are either aggressive or, worse, over friendly (while they think they are being charming!!).
I'm very satisfied not only with the service we get from LRT, but the quality of their stock too - the buses with ramps, hydraulics and space for buggies and wheelchairs are a fantastic public resource.
I think that the range and frequency of their buses has evolved over time and, whilst I'm sure there are constant naysayers, the service is something to be proud of.
I think that the range and frequency of their buses has evolved over time and, whilst I'm sure there are constant naysayers, the service is something to be proud of.
I agree, I think LRT provide an excellent service in Edinburgh - especially the 26 routeDadaist wrote:I'm very satisfied not only with the service we get from LRT, but the quality of their stock too - the buses with ramps, hydraulics and space for buggies and wheelchairs are a fantastic public resource.
I think that the range and frequency of their buses has evolved over time and, whilst I'm sure there are constant naysayers, the service is something to be proud of.
(first time I've ever lived on a bus route where a bus could be guaranteed every 5 or so minutes, and I love it......although some others might not be too happy, eh Epykat 
)I too agree - but 'guaranteed' every 5 mins??!! 
Mind you, it's not as bad as it was when they first started the 5 mins service when five no 26s would arrive at once.
BTW, good news for those who like to visit Dunbar by bus - there is a bus every 30 mins Mon to Sat now. X6 and X8 - the latter doing a wee detour via Tranent.
Mind you, it's not as bad as it was when they first started the 5 mins service when five no 26s would arrive at once. BTW, good news for those who like to visit Dunbar by bus - there is a bus every 30 mins Mon to Sat now. X6 and X8 - the latter doing a wee detour via Tranent.